67. Strong Female Friendships: Here's Why Women and The World Need Them.

In this episode, Shay and Rebecca explore the themes of personal growth, the significance of female friendships, and the impact of community on emotional well-being. They discuss their own experiences with life changes, the importance of feeling safe and accepted in friendships, and how media often misrepresents female relationships. The conversation highlights the journey of finding belonging and support in a world that can often feel isolating. The duo explores the complexities of female friendships, touching on themes such as societal hierarchies, patriarchial-induced competition, the sisterhood wound, vulnerability, and the importance of trust. Let's not deny this truth - we know this world would be a better place if women felt safer and more empowered to be their fullest expression. Women need other women for this.

Key Moments

• Rebecca and Shay reminisce on their meet-cute through an online community and the depth of their connection.
• They highlight the importance of feeling safe to be oneself in friendships.
• The hosts discuss how media often portrays female friendships negatively, focusing on competition and drama.
• They both share their journey with the sisterhood wound and where it stemmed from. 
• Vulnerability is key to building deeper connections.
• Women have historically been pitted against each other due to societal norms.
• Healthy female friendships can inspire and uplift communities.
• Radical honesty is essential for authentic relationships.
• Creating safe spaces for sharing emotions enhances friendships.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Navigating Life Changes and Personal Growth
• 11:07 The Importance of Female Friendships
• 21:40 Building Community and Connection
• 27:20 Media Portrayals of Female Friendships
• 29:51 The Impact of Societal Hierarchies on Female Friendships
• 36:43 The Sisterhood Wound
• 43:38 The Journey to Vulnerability and Trust
• 49:21 The Role of Women in Society and Community
• 55:38 Lessons from Female Friendships
• 1:01:20 Building Deeper Connections in Friendships

Transcript

Shay (00:01.577)
Hello, hello, welcome everyone to another episode of Vida. We are super excited, per usual, to have another conversation about community and relationships today. But before we dive in, as per usual, Becca, como esta tu corazon?

Rebecca Espinoza (00:23.79)
Okay. Hmm. Honestly, I'm feeling a bit

Like my energy is definitely waning and dropping. I should be getting my bleed I think tomorrow if anything. And think I'm adjusting to a new schedule of my lifestyle recently. And yeah, now I'm definitely feeling the effects of this longer schedule. But overall, I'm feeling pretty steady. You know, just recently had some realizations about some life

path changes that I want to make for myself, for my growth and really kind of pushing myself to my growth edge, which is scary but so important. Yeah, I've been going to the gym a lot. feel like we can have a whole episode about how much we love to gym now.

Shay (01:14.625)
Jim Gurley.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:23.576)
But the gym is a fun place. It's a very vulnerable place for sure. Yeah, like everyone is, I think it's a very primal place to be. And I just think there's, yeah, it's a very vulnerable expression of yourself, seeing yourself and your strengths, but also your weaknesses as well. Yeah, and just having gym crushes, that's always fun. You never talk to them, but you just make eye contact.

Shay (01:27.543)
can be, yeah.

Shay (01:50.263)
could change that.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:53.15)
I know, back to the conversation of shooting the shot.

Shay (01:56.597)
Yeah, I mean in the boys episode they did say that girl should do it more often. They would love it.

Rebecca Espinoza (02:04.19)
Yeah, I know. I'm gonna practice my own in part of, you know, invitation with NC How That Goes. Because I feel like I definitely give the RBF too often. Do you know when you're just like in it and you don't realize you're in it and then you're like,

Shay (02:09.149)
invitation.

Shay (02:19.539)
yeah, I've been practicing that where I'm like, okay, I think in my head, I'm open with the energy I'm giving out is not very open because I'm just like, I'm focused, I want to get my shit done. And it's like, please approach me, but I'm not making myself approachable. So I get it. Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (02:25.806)
Yeah

Rebecca Espinoza (02:32.202)
Exactly.

Exactly. Yeah. So it's just like having smiling at the right time or just like having the twinkle in your eye. I don't even fucking know. So it's a fun practice, I think, because it's a practice of being like in your playful feminine in some ways, which is always good to practice. But yeah, como esta tu corazon?

Shay (02:53.687)
I feel like full in various different ways. I am also adjusting to a new schedule. Like I have a new teaching schedule going into Q2. Obviously some big life shifts have happened and a lot of my energy has opened up and it honestly feels really good. I've been having moments of like, I forgot.

Rebecca Espinoza (03:06.114)
Mmm.

Rebecca Espinoza (03:10.509)
Yeah.

Shay (03:19.031)
how like joyful and peaceful my life could feel because the last six months weren't not that. And there is pieces of grief there because I like almost I don't know if guilty is the right word, but almost felt bad of being like, actually, I'm so glad that this experience in this situation is done. Even though it meant a lot to me at the same time while I was going through it, it was just kind of like

Rebecca Espinoza (03:24.482)
Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (03:38.465)
Hmm.

Shay (03:44.457)
Even though was going through the experience, I knew that that wasn't the life that I wanted for myself. And it was such like a double-edged sword to experience. And then now that it's complete, I'm just like, I'm just, my life is really great. And I'm ready to just like feed that energy again. And I can tell that I'm changing in ways that I can't tangibly understand yet, but I feel it. And it's like, I'm finally having space to kind of catch up to it and what my external reality will look like because of those changes. And so,

Rebecca Espinoza (04:09.912)
Mm-hmm.

Shay (04:14.069)
Life has just felt full, but yeah, I'm like back in full swing of my routine again and like eating right, because I was like so anxious and stressed that I couldn't for a bit there and having fun things on my calendar and just looking forward to everything that's to come. So yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (04:16.461)
Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (04:21.805)
Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (04:31.662)
Yes, honestly, it was. And you know, I think you have been growing and growing and changing even during that season of your life from what I witnessed. But, you know, sometimes when we're in a certain season of life, it is harder to grow and change. Like something keeps like the energy keeps us there. And we were just like, I'm trying to grow. I'm trying to go forward. So why do I keep getting like stuck in the mud? You know, so.

Shay (04:52.663)
It's like pulls you back a little. Yeah.

Shay (04:59.489)
Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (05:00.878)
Yeah, I know it was a hard one to let go and process, but I'm so happy to hear personally that you feel alive again. No one likes to see the people in their lives just like fucking struggling. So, yeah. And on the point to like, I also just want to like highlight the fact that, you know, I feel like some people may feel similar when a relationship ends or something ends and they are able to just like move on like.

Shay (05:11.349)
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Rebecca Espinoza (05:30.806)
you know, move on without think, not think, not not thinking about it, but move on because you were grieving in real time. And because like intuitively, you knew that whatever that season was, it wasn't going to last forever.

Shay (06:26.023)
UGH!

Shay Frago (08:06.083)
Okay, I'm gonna, can hear me? Okay, I'm gonna, hang on.

Rebecca Espinoza (08:10.157)
Yeah.

Shay Frago (08:17.187)
Let's I don't think it matters if I have the headphones or not. But I do have my microphone. I don't get it. My internet was fine. Good morning. I hate technology sometimes.

Rebecca Espinoza (08:28.046)
Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (08:38.518)
Of course that happens.

Rebecca Espinoza (08:46.178)
Mm-hmm.

Shay Frago (08:51.107)
Okay, test test. Can you hear me clearly? Okay. Well, this is how we're recording today.

Rebecca Espinoza (09:00.6)
That's okay, we're rolling with the punches.

Shay Frago (09:04.456)
I feel like... funny.

Rebecca Espinoza (09:06.305)
Okay

It's fine. We'll see how it looks on the reals too, but I think it'll be good. Yeah, you just want to clip it. Oh, what about clip it to your underneath? Yeah.

Shay Frago (09:23.272)
Okay. Okay. Try that again.

Rebecca Espinoza (09:26.646)
Okay, yeah, no, I was just saying that for just want to point to the fact of what you said, you feeling you feeling guilty about like moving on after just feeling like this big season of your life just came to a completion. And I think a lot of people may feel like that too. But I think it's also valid to point out that when you're grieving in real time, like

Shay Frago (09:46.753)
Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (09:51.754)
when the situation is happening and when you feel like, you know, this isn't going to work anymore and the season is going to come to an end. I think it's normal to be able to move on fairly quickly after it ends. And of course, grief comes in waves. So we're on our high sometimes, and then we may have a moment where we miss that person or whatever it may be. And we're back in that moment of deep, deep, deep inner reflection and some grief. But I think the

Shay Frago (09:56.368)
Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (10:18.326)
The moment of grieving in real time is what I saw you do. And I just want to say that that's helpful for people who are moving through endings of relationships and whatnot.

Shay Frago (10:24.305)
Yeah.

Shay Frago (10:30.578)
Yeah, very true. feel like I was processing everything in real time for sure. There was no not feeling all the feelings all the way through and there was definitely like three or four days when the initial breakup happened that was like intense and then I was like, you know, at the end of the day I know why it ended and it's unfortunate and I think the truth of any relationship ending whether friendship or romantic is like when you know it makes it really easy to move on and

Rebecca Espinoza (10:35.394)
Mm-hmm.

Rebecca Espinoza (10:50.317)
Yeah.

Shay Frago (11:00.766)
Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (11:02.741)
Exactly.

Shay Frago (11:05.439)
Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (11:07.95)
All right, should we get into our topic today? I feel like it's really relevant because, mean, you were going through a really difficult time. I was going through a difficult time over the last year. Our friends are as well, like our Waffle House group chat, there was that one day where he just felt really tender in there. And this is why it's so important, at least, you know.

Shay Frago (11:10.61)
Yes.

Shay Frago (11:19.515)
Yours.

Rebecca Espinoza (11:35.342)
Yes, to have strong friendships, but women to have strong female friendships. It is so nourishing and so supportive for our healing and our growth and our expansion. I think there's so many women out there that probably, and I've been in this phase before too, where I'm just like, I just like having friends, like guy friends, because guys are chill. Guys are no drama and X, Y, I think you've been there as well.

Shay Frago (12:01.756)
Yeah, yeah, 100%.

Rebecca Espinoza (12:03.95)
But look at us now. We have these really healthy, thriving female friendships and I could not imagine my life without you, without any of our other core group friends. Like it just wouldn't make sense to me at all. So, I mean, to go on the theme of friendship, let's just talk a little bit about our meet queue. I think we shared it. Shared it a few times, but I think it's a fun one because I

Shay Frago (12:13.149)
Mm-mm.

Shay Frago (12:28.613)
It's unique, I feel.

Rebecca Espinoza (12:30.06)
It's unique and kind of people, but it's unique. It was unique back then, but I think this is how people kind of meet nowadays in regards to online communities.

Shay Frago (12:39.399)
think in our world, but I feel like a lot of people and a lot of guys I've dated were like, wait, all your best friends you met randomly on the internet? Some of them I haven't even met in person yet. And they're like, they're like one of your best friends. like, what?

Rebecca Espinoza (12:41.208)
True, true, true.

Rebecca Espinoza (12:55.448)
I keep forgetting that yeah, our world, yeah, it's a bubble sometimes.

Shay Frago (12:58.233)
In our world, I think it's very common if you are in the digital space and entrepreneurial and digital nomad to some degree, it's very normal to meet people through the online space and become close. But I don't think the norm is that.

Rebecca Espinoza (13:03.874)
Yeah.

true.

Rebecca Espinoza (13:12.322)
Barrage.

Rebecca Espinoza (13:18.958)
I guess that's true, that's really valid. I keep forgetting that. That's not always the norm. Okay, how did we meet? Let's talk about our meet queue.

Shay Frago (13:29.084)
think even, yeah, so like we met online but not even just like an online Facebook group, not even just like we did a program together. We were a part of... That's what some people thought it was. Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (13:38.476)
We were in a cult. We always joke about that. Erica always says that. But when Erica, when we talk about it, we're like, haha, just kidding. But not really. I think we kind of were.

Shay Frago (13:49.945)
I think maybe I don't know. I call it I like refer to it as like there was a period of time where I was in an online abundance economy where like we just focused on mindset and manifesting money and you did get invited I guess similar kind of like a cult would be and there's like ethos and values blah blah blah blah. And ultimately

Rebecca Espinoza (14:05.614)
HA!

Rebecca Espinoza (14:11.074)
Wait, side note, side note. Yeah, there's ethos and values. Have you ever been asked if you were in a cult based on your life in general? Just quick side note.

Shay Frago (14:23.194)
I don't think so.

Rebecca Espinoza (14:25.372)
Like do you people ever thought you were in a cult? No,

Shay Frago (14:28.266)
But if they did, they certainly never expressed it. I don't know if cult would be the right word. I think people think I'm a lot more like free and open-spirited, which I guess is true. But I'm like, I'm way more grounded than how you perceive me in the spirit.

Rebecca Espinoza (14:38.936)
Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (14:46.09)
Yes, I agree, yeah.

Yeah, we were in this little, yeah, just online community for women and going into it, was one thing, right? Thinking it was one thing, but I think we got so much more out of it than we realized. I mean, I didn't become rich from being in it. And like, you know what? Oh, what was the other thing in MLM? thought like, would think maybe it's...

Shay Frago (14:57.882)
and

Shay Frago (15:11.399)
yeah, it was structured I guess similarly. but it was definitely way more out there. definitely took a very open-minded person and I would say yeah, like call it an abundance economy because I went in with the idea that I was gonna make money, which I did. I like did make money. And I may have not become rich in terms of like the monetary sense the way I thought, the way some of the other women experienced in there.

Rebecca Espinoza (15:16.056)
but more spiritually.

Rebecca Espinoza (15:26.52)
Mm-hmm.

Rebecca Espinoza (15:31.285)
Mm-hmm. Same.

Shay Frago (15:40.596)
But I did become rich in so many other ways. Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (15:43.148)
Yeah, exactly. And I do think that community and that way of relating and thinking was a big first step for me in my working with my money mindset. I had never worked on any of that stuff before. And on top of it, doing it in community, talking about something as vulnerable as money and your debts and your lack mentality in front of people.

Shay Frago (15:54.781)
yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (16:08.024)
what the fuck or like your dreams, like your dreams that you maybe you wouldn't have, you haven't shared publicly with anyone. That was really special in my opinion. And you know, we had like regular check-ins. We were having Zoom meetings. Was it like every week or bi-weekly?

Shay Frago (16:21.724)
Yeah, pretty much and then was always connected right of the I definitely feel like it was because of this online community we called it a mandala that like Really changed my relationships to women also because this was all around the same time where I like started diving into spiritual growth and personal development and Had started therapy had gone out of like a six-year relationship just like so many huge

Rebecca Espinoza (16:23.65)
the group chat.

Rebecca Espinoza (16:32.439)
Mm-hmm.

Rebecca Espinoza (16:37.014)
Yes.

Yes.

Rebecca Espinoza (16:43.275)
Exactly.

Shay Frago (16:49.853)
moments in my mid-20s that I was like, in many ways it looks like my life was crumbling and I was like, the heck am I? And I didn't really have friends that I resonated with anymore. So in so many ways, this joining this group marks kind of the beginning, the beginning of it all. I guess that sounds...

Rebecca Espinoza (16:55.564)
Mm-hmm.

Rebecca Espinoza (17:09.646)
I agree it was for me too and I think that's really special because we were all in a very similar place and then to have gone through journeys that had a similar theme and then to still be here now and like we're still yeah we just had a we just had a mandala like reunion call with some of our girls like last week which was really special and beautiful these are women that we're still so connected to some of them I think you've met all of them in person the ones that we were on the phone call on the zoom with I have

Shay Frago (17:27.381)
Yeah.

Shay Frago (17:35.048)
I have now, yes.

Rebecca Espinoza (17:39.564)
I haven't met all of them yet, but they're like, I'm like, yeah, these are my girls. it doesn't, Lauren is one of them. She's going to be on here and Sonia too. has been already been on the podcast. So like that just goes to show the level of depth and relationship that we have with each and every one of them because we're inviting you on the podcast just to talk about surface level shit. we're talking about real things.

Shay Frago (17:43.709)
It's been like five years of friendship.

Shay Frago (18:01.536)
Yeah, and mind you, all of us live very far apart from each other and still have such a close relationship. That's why, like, when I hear people literally five miles down the street from me, I'm too busy. I'm like, bullfucking shit. It's just not a priority to you.

Rebecca Espinoza (18:04.44)
Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (18:16.206)
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. The people that you want to keep in your life, you'll make a priority even if you just are sending them a voice note like for a few minutes just to check in and things like that. So that was the essence of how we met. And then we didn't actually meet in person until a year of being in the mandalas, Probably.

Shay Frago (18:23.635)
Okay.

Shay Frago (18:38.133)
about, yeah, you had come to the bay. Was this like kind of post pandemic but not quite normalcy of the world yet? I feel

Rebecca Espinoza (18:48.27)
don't know if the pandemic, has the pandemic happened yet? Yes, it did, it did.

Shay Frago (18:53.172)
It was either like the tail end of 2020 because I moved to LA shortly after you came to visit. Which was in 2021, so.

Rebecca Espinoza (18:56.674)
I think it was the tail end.

Rebecca Espinoza (19:02.408)
Yes, I remember. remember we were... Yeah, I think you were getting ready to move or something by that time. Yeah. I remember we were eating food on your living room floor. I don't know why. And when there was there was a couch there.

Shay Frago (19:10.377)
Mm-hmm.

Shay Frago (19:14.249)
Yeah.

Shay Frago (19:17.694)
Yeah.

We just, yeah, we're on the floor. I don't know.

Rebecca Espinoza (19:22.656)
And then we went to a park too. We have a photo when we were like laying in the park. Yeah, so, and then when we met, it was just so like, I'm like, yeah, this is Shay.

Shay Frago (19:28.111)
Yeah, the park like nearby my apartment there where I was living at the time.

Shay Frago (19:38.577)
We've known each other forever, but it's the first time we met in the physical real world.

Rebecca Espinoza (19:42.956)
And I don't know how we continued, because you moved to LA. So we continued our.

Shay Frago (19:45.937)
Yeah, we still had like kept in touch, think through the online group and stuff and I was going through some twin flame stuff, which you can go listen to that podcast.

Rebecca Espinoza (19:57.624)
There's a whole podcast on that featuring Shay's real life story.

Shay Frago (19:59.667)
Yeah, I like no God I was possessed but Yeah, I think like I was like updating new girls and like all that whole process with this guy that I was dating and then fell into like the internet world of believing twin flames was real and blah blah blah and then yeah, and then I was

Rebecca Espinoza (20:17.133)
think I sent you Nancy too.

Shay Frago (20:19.388)
Probably, and I was doing all sorts of out there woo-woo stuff where in hindsight I'm like, what was I doing? But it's okay. It was all a part of the process.

Rebecca Espinoza (20:27.01)
You're just trying to get answers because you're in such a like unknown territory.

Shay Frago (20:31.954)
Yeah, well it was known but I just wasn't tangible for my brain I think at the time. But yeah, I was like not sure if I was going to be able to stay in the Bay because that's where I was living and I was like well if this doesn't work out I'm going to be moving to LA and Becca was in LA and it's like oh we can hang out more and like our other girlfriends had also returned back to LA. It was like all of us kind of got shipped back home for a bit there. Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (20:57.44)
Yeah, that was really cool. That was really cool that we were able to all have some time and yeah, deep in our community as a crew now versus like, yeah, just like having individual friendships. So, my gosh, it's just like so crazy to think back and reflect on that because it doesn't feel like that long ago.

Shay Frago (21:05.338)
Yeah.

Shay Frago (21:16.321)
No, it was four years ago that I would have. Yeah, four years ago I would have moved to L.A.

Rebecca Espinoza (21:18.712)
But so much has happened.

Yeah, exactly. Damn. Well, going back to the Mandala group, you already mentioned, and let's get into a little bit more. We can talk about it. How has, you how did the Mandala group and being in that community shift relating to women or having female friendships for us?

Shay Frago (21:40.878)
I think the number one thing was feeling like I was safe to be all of me. I think this is true of any relationship. If there's not a sense of safety and trust where you can be vulnerable and fully express whatever that means in that current season of life, then you're kind of hiding parts of yourself and you're living a good life. And I definitely felt that with other friendships prior where I was just like, feel like these people don't fully understand me or they don't necessarily want the same life or what I'm

Rebecca Espinoza (21:58.231)
Hmm.

Shay Frago (22:10.18)
Desiring if I speak about it like I'm the black sheep like it was not like this sense of Belonging and I feel like with this group of women I learned like there's other people who think similarly to me and even if they don't think similar to me they like Accept the way that I think or they'll challenge the way that I think if they feel that that's beneficial to the relationship But I felt like I could talk about my good days. I could celebrate myself, which has always been a struggle in front of women, especially just like not

Rebecca Espinoza (22:13.432)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Shay Frago (22:39.779)
bragging or not letting yourself have the light versus all of us really encouraged, like, no, if you had a great day and I'm having a bad day, I still want to hear it. We can still celebrate you. There was room for everything. And I thought that was just so special and so important because I think it's not true of a lot of relationships, period.

Rebecca Espinoza (22:59.608)
I agree. I think, you know, the theme there that I've also resonate with is just the belonging piece. And I think anyone who's looking for community, that's what they're going to feel. Even if it's something you can't explain, there is that essence of like, I just want to belong, you know, when you're young, maybe you can think about, you know, being relating when you're in high school or middle school, you want to fit in. That's like the that's the, I guess, the more

immature expression of the sense of like belonging and community. But fitting in sometimes looks like adjusting yourself and who you are so you can fit in with a certain group of people versus just being who you fucking are. And if you're accepted, you're accepted and you're not, you're gonna find your people where you belong. And I think that's the journey we all went through. Everyone, that was a theme for all of us because everyone who was in that community has said, and this is why it sounds like a cult probably because we didn't fit in anywhere else. So we just were like,

We all found each other, which is really beautiful. I also felt like, you know, with my past group of friends that I couldn't, I would speak about certain things and people would just look at me like, hmm, okay, like, what the fuck are you talking about? Or is this person really into this stuff? Or like, they wouldn't try to go deeper with it because they didn't care about it or they just didn't understand it. But you know what's funny? And I'm curious to know your experience too.

If any of those friends, past friends came back later, kind of showing interest in those things now because it now took a few years for them to catch up or just like their mindset, the way they thought or just, yeah, they're now really comfortable talking to you about certain things and opening up or asking questions because you walked the path already.

Shay Frago (24:44.64)
Yeah, I would definitely say there are handfuls of people who like, I may have like lost at the time, but then became envious, not in an unhealthy way, but just in a way where it's just like, you've, you seem so free. And I feel like I'm stuck here. But I think something that this way of relating and like having these groups of friends just like, has created this like safety in my energy that people just

Rebecca Espinoza (25:00.419)
Mm-hmm.

Shay Frago (25:14.421)
who used to be close friends just feel like I'm the person they can talk to and I'm like, but like we're not close friends anymore. But they know that I have also just like opened up about that. I've shared my journey. I've like all of these things and there's a desire for that. think a lot of people, women especially, just like have that desire to feel like they're not gonna be backstabbed or judged or.

Rebecca Espinoza (25:21.068)
Mm-hmm.

Rebecca Espinoza (25:27.244)
Exactly.

Shay Frago (25:42.378)
whatever the way society has groomed us to relate to each other as females. So, yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (25:47.438)
Yeah, exactly. I think, yeah, just, just, you know, reiterating, like, if everyone belongs somewhere, we're, we're tribal, sometimes I don't like using that word just because, you know, I just, yeah, but we come as a human species from a tribal way of existing.

So if you want to belong to community, it makes absolute sense. And sometimes your family is that community. Sometimes for people, it's not. So they go and seek it out. For I know for me, family wasn't really necessarily that at some point when I got old enough. So I needed to go seek it out. I needed to go seek my people out, my chosen family. So and yeah, you're going to lose some people. And some of those people may come back around. think have Brianna Weiss, her book.

Shay Frago (26:23.987)
thing.

Rebecca Espinoza (26:38.382)
I don't know if you read it. I know you read The Mountain is You, but I'm listening to right now. When you're ready, this is how you heal.

Shay Frago (26:44.56)
no, I have not read it, it's on my list. Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (26:45.62)
it's so good. I was actually gonna text you if you have read it, but there is something that she writes in there about relationships and friendships. She said, it's about signs that you're growing or something like that. You lose people in your life. So that's really, I think really essential. So we talked a little bit about, you kind of mentioned it, like the way it's portrayed.

Shay Frago (27:01.179)
Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (27:11.726)
How do you think the media portrays female friendships? I know we have a lot to say on this, think. And do you actually think it's accurate?

Shay Frago (27:18.952)
Yes and no. I think like yes and no in terms of accuracy. I would say no because I see how my female friendships are and that we are a stand for different ways of relating. And then I would say yes because a lot of the media, well I would say maybe years back, not necessarily all the time now. would say like...

Rebecca Espinoza (27:21.696)
same.

Shay Frago (27:45.869)
modern day tv shows and stuff do show beautiful female friendships but i feel like growing up and like i mean i even think of some of my favorite disney shows there's always this like one this like one female hierarchy where she's the popular one and i'm like thinking of lizzie maguire right like i was the lizzie and then who was was that the kate lizzie and kate yeah so i feel like

Rebecca Espinoza (27:48.821)
Mm-hmm. They've shifted.

Rebecca Espinoza (27:57.848)
trauma.

Rebecca Espinoza (28:03.137)
Mm-hmm.

Perfect. Or Unfabulous, Unfabulous, remember Unfabulous, show? Kate, it was Kate, it was Lizzie and Kate. Kate Sanders.

Shay Frago (28:16.231)
Yeah, that was always portrayed where it's just like there's the popular really pretty girl that everybody liked and all the boys like, but then the popular boy likes the non popular girl. So it was always kind of this like hierarchy that like one is better than the other. And that the world around kind of shifted that way. And so then was it Ethan? Like was more interested in Lizzie than Kate and Kate hated it and then she'd like

Rebecca Espinoza (28:39.797)
Uh-huh.

Shay Frago (28:44.72)
hate on Lizzie and like make fun of her and all this stuff. I feel like that type of dynamic was always kind of programmed in our female psyche and that like, you someone's gonna steal your man or something or like I have to be better. I have to be popular. I have to be like above the other. Yeah, and just like this, I don't know. It's like this, this cattiness that was portrayed in a lot of

Rebecca Espinoza (29:02.67)
Oh my god yeah, someone's gonna steal your man, so fucking true. What the fuck is that? Why is that a thing?

Shay Frago (29:13.419)
the tv shows and movies that i watched all throughout my like teenage years which

Rebecca Espinoza (29:19.47)
That's a Raven. That's a Raven. Do remember there was Raven and Chanel from Cheetah Girls and it's just... I get it. There needs to be some sort of like, true. Yeah, they had like a falling out in the... We're getting... You're clearly getting to know our pop, like pop culture side right now.

Shay Frago (29:23.993)
Yeah.

Yes, like so many. mean, yeah, it's even in cheetah girls. They were best

Shay Frago (29:40.823)
What I grew up on, I was a Disney kid, okay?

Rebecca Espinoza (29:43.752)
I was, yeah, this says a lot about us. We psychoanalyzed ourselves based on how much Disney we've watched for sure. But yeah, that's true even in Cheetah Girls there was like conflict and there was like passive regret. There was a competition between the friend like when they went to Barcelona and the girl thought they thought they were stealing each other like that whole thing. Damn. Yeah, you know.

Shay Frago (29:49.701)
Yeah.

Shay Frago (29:59.692)
Right? Yeah.

Shay Frago (30:07.132)
Mm-hmm. So it's just like, you know, like if you are more ambitious than the other friend or like you didn't have as much money as the other friend, you know, like there's just all these different hierarchies that we were taught. I mean, even all the Disney movies like Cinderella and her like evil stepsisters and just like all all of this stuff that you either had to be the best of the best in the higher chain of the hierarchy or you were the low below and

Rebecca Espinoza (30:20.344)
Mm-hmm.

Shay Frago (30:36.524)
you just like couldn't get past that. was just like wherever you were was wherever you were. And so I feel like I did carry that. And I think unconsciously, I just wouldn't really trust women or wouldn't like allow myself to get too close to them. Or I just had more surface level friendships, that's for sure. And there was always a part of me that kept people at arm's length. There was multi-layers to this. Some of it was my own shit. And then the other part of it was just like,

I was taught women were untrustworthy. And so it was twofold in that sense and I think as I started to get older, I started to question that belief of like, why do I think that? Because I was craving female friendship. I'm like, I just want a girlfriend who will watch like the romcom with me, like go to the movies and we can like get our nails done. Cause like I didn't have that like really basic.

Rebecca Espinoza (31:32.076)
No.

Shay Frago (31:33.9)
silly activities that we girls do but like I craved that I felt like I was missing that where I like didn't have that one girlfriend in my city where I can be like hey do you want to like come over and have a sleepover and like we can go get our nails done or be like go do brunch like shit that like men are not gonna care to do they do it because they're dating you often because yeah yes I had mainly guy friends who I loved to death like I'm so grateful for them I think there's importance of male friendships also but

Rebecca Espinoza (31:50.658)
Yeah, because you had you had a lot of guy friends. Yeah.

Shay Frago (32:01.216)
Girlhood is just the best and one yeah, it's like no one but your girls are gonna understand and like all the little girly things that we love to do like that's not why you have them but it's sort of like that it creates this full spectrum of relating it's like you have that do activities with but then when shit gets hard like You can talk to them also about anything that is also super super important

Rebecca Espinoza (32:03.475)
ass girlhood.

Rebecca Espinoza (32:16.398)
It does.

Rebecca Espinoza (32:24.47)
Exactly.

Exactly. And I think going back to like the way media portrays everything, because I think it ties in here with like the full circle. I think something that's portrayed in media a lot is that, yes, the cattiness, it's a big one, and the gossiping, gossiping on each other, gossiping like you can't, yeah, behind your back, you can't trust each other, blah, blah, blah. And yeah, the competition and you know what, and it's like the chicken or the egg, know, like which one came first, because there we, I used to do that when I was younger, gossip and

Shay Frago (32:44.971)
Yeah.

Shay Frago (32:58.977)
Okay.

Rebecca Espinoza (32:58.988)
I remember there was drama in my friend group all the fucking time when I was in the fifth grade. I'm like, why is there drama? It was like fourth grade. I'm like, what the fuck is going on? Girls wanted to fight each other. And I'm like, why? Why are we doing this? So again, was that because the media just told us that's how girls are? So we got programmed in us very early on. Or is that how we are in nature? I don't know. Chicken or the egg?

Shay Frago (33:27.699)
Yeah, I like, I personally feel if we think of the history of women and how we've evolved, we were always in competition because way back then, before we had any sort of autonomy and rights as we do now, you had to be married off by a certain age. so like, there was only so many eligible batch, well, rather, there was only so many men that were going to marry in a season. So women were always pitted against each other. You had to be the prettiest. You had to have the like,

Rebecca Espinoza (33:35.928)
We were, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Shay Frago (33:55.463)
money, your family had to have the land. Like, it's how we were bred.

Rebecca Espinoza (34:01.27)
Yeah, exactly. that was that was to us. That was yes, a society that is what created it. And it was let me emphasize this patriarchal society that did that. And I'm not here to like, hate on the patriarchy, whatever. Yeah, I'm not like, fuck the I'm kind of fuck the patriarchy. We're not not to like an extent where I'm like, fuck men. It's just like, it's just a way of life that got embedded into us and into the way we live. But there were matriarchies before.

Shay Frago (34:19.604)
Yeah.

Shay Frago (34:27.635)
Yes.

Rebecca Espinoza (34:27.732)
in ancient Greece, there were literally communities of women, like communities were run by women and it was so deeply embedded and connection and intimacy connection to the earth and compassion and love and the healing arts and the temple arts. Like that's something that existed. It existed in ancient Greece. So things like that existed at some point.

I know. It's like, was it in our nature? I don't think it was. I think we were just made to believe that that's how women were meant to be. And I also want to share, going back, I'll use the Lizzie McGuire example, like, yes, Kate and Lizzie were always catty, right? But, and in a lot of these shows, you'll see, and it happened and that's already been too, there was always a resolve that...

Shay Frago (35:17.086)
in

Rebecca Espinoza (35:18.112)
that ended with deep intimacy and connection and vulnerability when one admitted, I just really, like, I'm just jealous of you. I just like, like Kate told Lizzie in the Lizzie McGuire movie, she's like, are you kidding me? Like you're an international pop star and you have like this Italian guy falling in love with you, like you're living my dream. And she ended up being her friend then and covering for her and doing all these things. So

Shay Frago (35:28.828)
I know, I was like in the movie.

Rebecca Espinoza (35:43.124)
That goes back to the ability of think of women being able to be in their hearts and being vulnerable with each other. I think we do reach a breaking point where we're just like, I can't fucking take this anymore. Like it's hurting me too much. It's hurting us. And there is a point of resolution that involves intimacy and vulnerability. So I will say that that was always at least portrayed in the media, which I really appreciate. And I think another thing that was portrayed in the media was girls, women being clicky, which

Shay Frago (35:56.7)
Yeah.

Shay Frago (36:06.16)
That's yeah.

Shay Frago (36:11.429)
Mm-hmm.

Rebecca Espinoza (36:13.39)
To me, I kind of see it again, the desire just for belonging and community and connection. So some things are applicable to real life. I think they were portrayed in media, but I think they were exaggerated, of course. And then we perceive them not in the best way. But I think this goes perfectly with the point of the sisterhood wound. Let's talk about the sisterhood wound because you mentioned your difficulty with trusting women in your life. Let's go deep on that.

Shay Frago (36:19.515)
Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (36:43.564)
What's our sister head wound?

Shay Frago (36:46.171)
Well, would say mine starts with my mom. Like my mom, obviously our mothers are the first matriarch in our life and teach us relating and teach us nurturing and teach us like all of these things. And my mom was none of those things. Like my, I always would say like what I learned through therapy is like I have a lot

Rebecca Espinoza (36:58.638)
Hmm.

Rebecca Espinoza (37:10.318)
Mm-hmm.

Shay Frago (37:13.915)
forgiveness for my mom now because she was a child, literally raising a child and I can't imagine. Yeah, I just can't even imagine. And so I learned with my mother very early on a very sharp, rough way of being and living and relating. There was not a whole lot of nurturing and my mom held this belief because of what she went through that like I need to be

Rebecca Espinoza (37:18.211)
Yeah.

Shay Frago (37:41.911)
the meanest, hardest person on my child because that way she's going to be ready for the world because the world just like isn't nice. And it's sort of like I did not have that safe space in my home. I did not have that nurturing in the home. There was no room to mess up. There was no room for my own emotions or voice or anything like that. So I just kind of assumed that's what relating was going be like to other women and other people period honestly. I would say

Rebecca Espinoza (37:44.366)
Mm.

Shay Frago (38:08.875)
that created this wounding and then like unconsciously I just kind of carried like well I can't trust anyone. I wouldn't say for me personally at least it was like catered specifically towards men and women but because I learned this from my mom I imprinted it on women by default. And so I naturally felt a little more comfortable with guys and I didn't hold such a sharp

Rebecca Espinoza (38:30.349)
Yeah.

Shay Frago (38:38.667)
perspective around how men relate, it always just kind of seemed like chill and easy and whatever versus with like women it was like oh gosh like I don't really know how to do this like I just felt uncomfortable I think more than anything I just didn't know how to relate to women I didn't know how to be vulnerable but that was probably true of all my relationships to be honest but I would say it started there I like imprinted that the very first woman in my life taught me all these things therefore all women are probably gonna be like this which

Rebecca Espinoza (39:03.393)
Yeah.

Shay Frago (39:07.111)
Obviously is not true. I unlearned that, but that's for sure where it started for me.

Rebecca Espinoza (39:07.298)
Yeah, of course.

Rebecca Espinoza (39:12.95)
Yeah, and I think that's valid and I'm not, I mean, I don't doubt that there are a lot of other women who have had very similar experiences because we're not raised by perfect human beings, right? And yeah, like your caretakers are the very first reply. It's a, mommy issues, have daddy issues, you have both. Maybe, I think we all have both, honestly. A little bit of both. Some has a little bit more than others, but like, yeah.

Shay Frago (39:31.157)
Yeah, yeah, want a little bit of both, even if you grew up in perfect.

Rebecca Espinoza (39:39.532)
And sometimes you don't even realize you have one issue with one until you go through the healing phase with them. And then you're like, new level unlocked. I actually have mommy issues now too. But again, we're not raised by perfect human beings. We're not perfect. kids, our own kids are gonna, I hate, I just hate thinking about them. Like my own kid is gonna have their own perspective and their own lens about the way I'm raising them that they're gonna feel like my mom, my mom gave me some trauma.

Shay Frago (40:05.711)
Blah, blah, blah. Yeah. Yeah, even if no one tries to do that, of course. So it's like,

Rebecca Espinoza (40:09.378)
But

No, no, of course. And it's having a lot of compassion with that, which is hard, but it's important. Yeah, I mean, I just I want to I don't know if I don't. Yeah, I'm trying to think like, I think my sister had wound first started when I was bullied when I was bullied in middle school by my own friends. I was like, what the fuck just happened? And it was the fucking cattiness thing that I'm like, I don't want it. I don't want it. I don't want to be in a catty situation with

with people, but like, why am I here? And it was really just, I think a lot of it started. Yeah, I think it was over a boy. Like one of them was like mad that I used to date. And I just want to put this on the record. I used to date him first. Also, we were in the sixth fucking grade. It doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. It doesn't give a fuck. And and then it just turned into this whole thing. She turned all of our friends against me and they were they were like full on bullying me like.

Shay Frago (40:58.07)
Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (41:09.834)
on the bus, they would say some really mean things to me. And yeah, my friend who was like one of my best friends didn't think there was any reason for her not to like me suddenly just like fell into it and she just went on their side and I like didn't have any girlfriends and you know who fucking was still chill and didn't give a fuck all of the guys in our group. They didn't give a fuck and they were still my friends. They were talking to me. It was no big deal.

Shay Frago (41:11.671)
Okay.

Shay Frago (41:25.761)
.

Shay Frago (41:32.0)
Yeah, there.

Rebecca Espinoza (41:38.158)
And that was really uncomfortable to like go through that because I felt really alone and I just didn't understand why it was just for being me. was being ostracized and made to feel less than because I was me. And but because of that, I will say I ended up finding better and stronger friendships because I needed to make new friends. So I did. And the friends I became friends with, funny enough, they were also bullied by the same girl.

So it's just like, maybe we trauma bonded, but, and funny thing is one of those friends came back to me years later as adults, just like reaching out to me on Instagram, like, hey, like no big deal, like nothing happened. And I was like, this isn't normal. Like you're never gonna acknowledge the way he treated me as kids. Not that I need you to, but like, that's not normal. Like just like not recognizing like what happened in life.

Shay Frago (42:27.186)
Yeah

Rebecca Espinoza (42:36.598)
Yeah, so that I would say that was definitely my first experience with the Sisterhood wound. It was feeling like I couldn't trust women, that someone was always going to stab me in the back, that people were always talking behind my back and that I just couldn't be myself. and myself in the regards to like the shadow parts of me, right? The parts of me that even I'm still working on accepting and loving that if I show those parts, I'm not going to be love and accepted just like in a romantic relationship. So

Luckily, I've been able to work through that with and I'm not saying I've never had friend groups. female friend groups when I was in high school, I had a really tight-knit group of friends when I was in college. I was in a sorority and you experienced that as well, having like tight-knit group of friends. I will say though, like our group of friends today is like the safest expression of female friendships that I've had ever. So that feels really fulfilling. And I think that's a testament to like

where we are in our own lives as well. And I'm curious to know going back to the self or going into the self because that's where it starts. You know, what did you have to, what did we have to overcome internally so you can continue to deepen into sisterhood?

Shay Frago (43:38.043)
Yeah. feel like what comes to mind for me is learning to be vulnerable. Learning to share.

my feelings and talk about them. And especially the icky ones, like being able to like admit and acknowledge that I was like not doing well and that I was like having a hard time and I was struggling and that I needed support and like asking for help. I think were the biggest pieces that helped me start to relate at a deeper level.

Like I always love Brene Brown's teachings on vulnerability because I don't remember what the book is called but everyone should listen to it because I feel like it's just a common human thread that like we struggle to be vulnerable and no, it's the courage to be vulnerable I think is what it's called. It's something like that. And I honestly I might listen to it again because I feel like

Rebecca Espinoza (44:34.456)
You

Rebecca Espinoza (44:43.65)
Is it the brave one?

Rebecca Espinoza (44:49.633)
okay.

Rebecca Espinoza (44:55.214)
Yeah.

Shay Frago (44:56.408)
The very first time I listened to it, you just realize like the power of vulnerability and we don't like to be that way because we, the ego wants us to be perceived, know, X, Y, Z way, blah, blah, blah, blah. But really the way that you develop closeness is that feeling of like really seeing each other and really feeling each other, especially as like a female. I feel like the feminine way is through the body and the heart. And if like you can't feel someone's heart.

and like in your own system, then you kind of like just don't feel them. There's like a block between the heart to heart space. And I think it starts with some form of vulnerability because that's allowing yourself to be seen, that's allowing yourself to be expressed. Otherwise, you're always going to feel like that blockage between the two of you. Like I don't really fully know all of you. And even if you cannot tangibly like in your head understand that, you feel it.

Rebecca Espinoza (45:26.357)
Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Shay Frago (45:51.178)
And that's what makes people feel close to each other is like you realize like you're a human having an experience. I'm a human having experience. And so I feel like for me, that's when my relationships changed is when I started to allow myself to like actually be vulnerable and say like what was real, not just this autopilot response of just like, I'd be good, like, you know, there'd be times way back when where I'd be like going through some shit and like unhappy and like maybe the 10 minutes before I went to hang out with my friends, I was like on the floor in fetal position.

Rebecca Espinoza (46:14.072)
You

Shay Frago (46:19.086)
But then I'd show up to like French and be like, oh yeah, I'm fine. I'm pretty. Like blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, that's not real. That's not real. It's not living a real life. It's not living like a true fulfilling life. And you can feel that. You feel that in yourself. Like something is missing. And it's because you don't have an actual relationship with anybody. You just have a facade of how you want the relationship to feel and be perceived. And like, that's just...

Rebecca Espinoza (46:22.144)
Isn't that crazy? What the fuck? That's so crazy.

Rebecca Espinoza (46:30.35)
Hmm.

Rebecca Espinoza (46:36.302)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Shay Frago (46:47.662)
Not a fun way of relating in my pants.

Rebecca Espinoza (46:50.382)
Yeah, truly. think that ties into the piece of just like radical acceptance, you know, like internally, I think I just had to be a radical honesty. That's that's the piece more of anything which which is which is a sub branch of sub layer of vulnerability, you know, but they kind of go hand in hand like the whole radical honesty piece is like, yeah, I have to like, I have to be honest with myself right now. I feel like shit.

Shay Frago (46:58.552)
Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (47:18.318)
I feel like shit right now. don't like my life. I don't like how I feel. I feel lost. I feel depressed. XYZ. I used to do the same fucking thing, dude. I was like depressed as fuck in like 2018. And no one in my life knew other than my boyfriend because I couldn't hide it from him because I was crying and.

under the sheets in our bed. He was the only one. But then we would go out and I just be like, smiles and bubbly. I would be dying basically from like social anxiety, just having to put on this facade. And I got to a point where you have to just be radically honest because you feel I think you get pushed to a point where you feel like life is weighing you down and you just can't carry it in the same way anymore.

Shay Frago (48:06.361)
Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (48:06.944)
So I think for me was the radical honesty because I think the first point that I just had to, you know, I think accept was my depression and then being able to communicate that to people in my life. And the first people that I communicated to were women, my female friends.

Shay Frago (48:21.904)
Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (48:27.234)
And to receive the compassion and the understanding from that I think was really supportive and a foundation that I needed to continue to do that moving forward is to be radically honest. And again, that ties into vulnerability. So if that's not the answer you wanted to hear, you have to be vulnerable and share your heart. Well, that's what you're gonna get from us.

Shay Frago (48:41.292)
Nyeh!

Shay Frago (48:46.75)
Yeah. Listen, listen to the Brene Brown book because that's, that's what kickstarted me being.

Rebecca Espinoza (48:51.992)
I need to put it, I need to put on my list. Yeah, I mean, I think I've told you and if she's on this podcast, it was a Brene Brown, her Ted talk that went viral way back when, the one that made me be radically honest with myself. And I was in tears watching it, because I was like, fuck, something's off with me. Like, I need to be real. Okay, so going into a little bit more of the macro since we got into the micro, but

Shay Frago (49:02.59)
Yeah.

Shay Frago (49:11.903)
Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (49:21.324)
I think it's safe to say, I would like to say. I'm not saying that the world should be a matriarchy, but you know, how do healthy female friendships actually support society in our world? Obviously they support our communities. How do they support society as a whole? What do you think?

Shay Frago (49:39.882)
Well, my little masculine brains like we are the consumerism industry. We are what feeds businesses. We are what starts businesses. We are

the ethos of where society goes quite often just because like we're the ones connected to our hearts and we're the visionaries, like men can be visionaries also, but it's very, very different. And I think when women are healthy, first with themselves and then with each other, like we are truly the thing that inspires the world forward. And obviously we also are the creators of the world. Like we're the ones bring children into this world and life into this world and

Rebecca Espinoza (50:13.72)
Yeah.

Shay Frago (50:18.362)
I think when women are healthy and in communal spaces, we really can change things because we also inspire the men in our lives. And then the men who can be the go-getters and the doers and the builders and blah, blah, it's this cohesive ecosystem where we can just all rise together because we can see way more than what men can because we are the Oracle. that's not like both have gifts, right? It's not to be like men can't.

Rebecca Espinoza (50:45.996)
Yeah, no.

Shay Frago (50:46.6)
That's not what I'm saying. And I say that because I feel like our world has groomed women to kind of dull their light and dull their oracle and things like that. And I think that's the other thing is like when women are healthy, our men can start to become healthier too. And like I see it because especially right now, like people are hurting. And I just think, yeah, the power of when women come together is the way forward.

Rebecca Espinoza (50:55.211)
Yes.

Rebecca Espinoza (51:03.052)
Mm-hmm.

Shay Frago (51:15.314)
for a lot of our society because then it also creates healthy union in terms of like men and women coexisting and when both strengths of men and women are cohesive, it's like, whoa, incredible things can happen.

Rebecca Espinoza (51:28.822)
Absolutely, you know, I wanna bring in a quote from your current crush slash expander, Ricky, I don't know what his last name is, but whatever, he wrote that book on heartbreak. But he had said on the Girls Gotta Eat podcast, what, what something along these lines, like, you know, what would the world be like if men actually

Shay Frago (51:45.616)
heartbreak. Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (51:58.91)
related the way women do. you know, he said hurt men hurt women. He's like, you know, and I think a lot of the times men are still hurting because they don't have each other to talk about what they're going through. He's like, women talk about it. They're there for each other. They encourage it. And men just hide it and stuff it down because it's not masculine enough to do that. And then they just continue to go and hurt people. This came from the mouth of a man. So I'm not.

Shay Frago (52:10.991)
Yeah.

Shay Frago (52:27.484)
Yeah

Rebecca Espinoza (52:28.878)
It's not my words, but I agree with it. Because women are the weavers. I think it's just like simply put as that. And who were the ones that were fucking responsible? Again, like you said, we can all learn from each other. There is a lot that I can learn from the men in my life and that I have learned from the men in my life. And I'm so grateful I'm not saying we don't need men. I just wanna make that very clear. But women...

Shay Frago (52:36.717)
Yeah.

Shay Frago (52:50.036)
Okay.

Rebecca Espinoza (52:57.77)
are naturally historically have been the weavers, the weavers of like literally physically things like making things with their hands, bringing things, joining things together. And then also within the family, bringing and weaving the family who's usually at the center of the family, trying to bring the family together. Who's the who's lending the ear to everyone in the family when they need support. It's the mother. It's not you don't really see like the dad. But I think that's changing. Thankfully, that has changed as well. But also like

when the men went out to go hunt and go do their thing, who was the one that holding shit down at home? Like who was, it was the women coming together as community, helping each other raise their kids as their, you know, their partners were out providing, which is amazing. But who needed to fucking hold it down at home and make sure things were still running and doing it in community and relation because we can't do it by ourselves, it was the women. So I think that's a very special skill of ours that we can do.

And yeah, like you said, we're the oracles. was, again, bringing it back to like ancient Greece. It was the Oracle of Delphi. It was like groups of women that were entrusted by kings and royalty to go and seek out advice and guidance and wisdom from women because naturally we are way more tapped in because from a science perspective, it's the way just our brains work, right?

Shay Frago (54:18.403)
Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (54:24.608)
During our menstrual cycles, we are naturally a bit more psychic, like when we're bleeding, it's like a real thing. So I think there are just signs everywhere that and if women have healthy relationships with each other, we have more trust, again, and being able to be ourselves step into that light, we have the support and the backing from our community.

Shay Frago (54:30.484)
Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (54:50.574)
that we can go and be better, that we can go and be the oracles and the mothers and the queens and be of service for higher good for our families, for our communities and for the world and creating what we want to create from a place of our heart. So, and we can't do that without support of our people and our family, without our tribe. So I think the world would definitely be a more just like luxurious and abundant and

rich place when women have healthier relationships because we feel safe to go be all of ourselves. All right, what's a powerful lesson a female friend has taught you that shaped who you are today?

Shay Frago (55:38.004)
Honestly, the thing that's top of mind right now though, and it's happening in real time but it was also a gentle reminder, is just this new way of relating of like, do you need me to hold space for you or do you want my honest feedback? Because I think it's such a two-fold thing and as we experience the world and as we experience life, I think that is such a deep reverence of respect, of honoring

Rebecca Espinoza (55:53.304)
Mm-hmm.

Shay Frago (56:04.828)
each other's internal compasses and encouraging your female friendships to trust their own voice, to trust their own instincts and to help them when they're struggling to feel it or see it for themselves. To help un-muddy, help clear the lines that they might be experiencing and I think that type of level of encouragement of like, no, you got this.

and I'm here to listen and I'm here to remind you of like your power. I'm here to remind you that like you can trust yourself. I'm here to remind you that like whatever internal voice is coming up, can trust it, you can listen to it and like helping them pull that out because I think that journey of self-trust that we all go through is really difficult and I think there's so much external noise in the world that it's very easy to have things coming inward versus like what's happening internally to come out and like sure, there's things that you need to.

Rebecca Espinoza (56:51.022)
Mm-hmm.

Shay Frago (57:00.635)
work through in terms of like trauma and wounding and blah blah blah. But I think that has been something that's been a gentle reminder in my female friendships and I'm like so grateful that I'm surrounded by women who want to not only be supportive and hold space but help me trust myself more. And I think that's just like a deep level of respect and the way to move about the world that I think is really special.

Rebecca Espinoza (57:29.846)
Yeah, you know, I was actually thinking about that question earlier today and or yeah, last night and I, the same one came from me because the same response because I had that same lesson, think like a few weeks ago, where I needed to practice to remind myself to ask my friend, one of our really close friends, what do you need right now? Do you need this or do you need that? And

Shay Frago (57:49.129)
Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (57:55.746)
I think especially as women, like you said, yes, we're highly intuitive. We can really read into a situation very well. And sometimes to the point, maybe see things that the people in our lives have blinders on or they have rose-colored glasses and XYZ. And for me, I get really protective of my friends and the people that I love. So for sure, just sometimes I wanna be like, this is what's happening. And I think that also comes...

Shay Frago (58:13.949)
Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (58:25.032)
from the experience of like, you know, women know best. And I think you see that a lot in like men and female and male relationships, just like, I know better. Like I know best because whatever, X, Y, And Meg O'Neil talks about that in one of her courses. And maybe you do have some great insight, but you don't know best for this other person's life. Like you just don't because you're not in their shoes and you're not in their experience. And another piece that tags onto that, I think, is the

for me remembering this is something that I've learned being in our conscious, like conscious friendships is, shit, hold on, sorry, I just got like, okay, for me, it's been asking if they have space to receive like, space to support me, if they have space for me to like vent and share because I think,

Shay Frago (59:20.335)
Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (59:23.072)
And you know, I will say this, women do have tendency to word vomit. Like we do that because especially if you are comfortable expressing yourself, you're just like, and then suddenly you're expressing everything onto your friend and your friend was like not ready for that. And she, maybe it is someone who wants to like hold space. And it's happened to me too, where I'm like, I'm on the receiving end and I'm like,

Oh my God, I'm really overwhelmed now and I'm kind of overstimulated by receiving all of this that I didn't really ask to receive. But now I feel obligated to support this person right now and I don't feel fully in my contains place to do it. So that's been a really big one. And I think it might seem weird to people to ask that, to ask someone, hey, do you have space to kind of support me or to, you know, hear me vent out? I don't think

That's a norm for people, but I think it should be. They don't want to be word vomiting everywhere.

Shay Frago (01:00:21.558)
Yeah, especially if it's like a heavier topic. I think like there's naturally going to be moments where all human that you will just kind of like, you know, dump. And I think if it is like a heavier topic where like it could potentially bring something up in another person, think it's honoring. It's not only creating safety in the relationship, it's just like also honoring

Rebecca Espinoza (01:00:25.294)
Mm-hmm.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:00:39.768)
Yeah.

Shay Frago (01:00:45.848)
that you are gonna need something and maybe this person's also going through their own stuff and they haven't expressed it to you yet and you just wanna respect that dance in the friendship or any relationship, but yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:01:00.224)
Mm-hmm, exactly. It's not a one-sided experience. There is another person or multiple people involved. Okay, now just to leave it off with a little piece of guidance maybe. If someone, if a woman is desiring to find deeper and more fulfilling friendships, what advice could we give them?

Shay Frago (01:01:20.635)
Bye!

Shay Frago (01:01:25.849)
I feel like when it comes to creating friendships and developing relationships very much in the ways that we've been describing this whole episode, I feel like you can feel when there's an opening and you can feel when there's not. And I know that's not like super tangible, but I always kind of like to think, like I just did this with current female friendships here in my...

local community where it's just like I relate in such a deeper way and there was like medicine to be had for all and I was nervous like I was very nervous I was like I don't want to this conversation like what if I get rejected or what if I someone's feelings or blah blah blah blah but you can I could feel in like my body and my heart space especially like when you put your hands on your heart and just like breathe like is there an opening

Rebecca Espinoza (01:02:06.872)
Hmm.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:02:17.496)
Mm-hmm.

Shay Frago (01:02:19.808)
And if there's an opening, then lean into that, which ties back to what we said earlier in learning to be vulnerable and be seen and be expressed so that you can create that deeper level of connection with your female friendships. this could be a person you literally just met, but you're going to feel that resonance. You're going to feel that opening of, I want to get to know this person. And it feels like this person wants to get to know me too. And it's kind of like dating, but it's just a friendship.

If you're feeling that, just lean in. And then, like, baby steps of, like, how you build that relationship, I think, is where I would leave it.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:02:57.536)
Yeah, I would say definitely. Like you said, it's just a feeling that you receive that you're like, I kind of want to get to know this person a little bit more. And I feel like this person would amplify my experience here as a human being. And just like, why not just lean into it? And if you feel like you don't belong, because we've talked about this, if you're currently feeling like you don't belong in your certain friend groups or you feel like a certain friendship is ending, I said I would.

I would definitely say leaning into why you feel like you don't belong. Like, is it because you feel like you can't talk about the same things anymore or now you suddenly have new interests and hobbies that they can't relate to? Because we bond a lot of the times by doing things that, you know, doing things together that we can relate to. And, you know, are you noticing, we're gossiping a lot more and that's just like what our friendship is based on. We're drinking. That's really all we're doing. I would say, get lean into.

Shay Frago (01:03:39.445)
it

Rebecca Espinoza (01:03:56.15)
like experiences in communities where those interests align with you because you'd be surprised. And we actually just had a friend, one of ours, who posted in a Facebook group where she lives, hey, I'm desiring deep female friendships and like, this is what I'm looking for, this is who I am and this is what I'm into. And she had so many women reach out to her and she just organized a coffee meetup with a few of them. And like, was like quite a few women that showed up and

Shay Frago (01:04:09.539)
No.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:04:26.04)
That's bold to do something like that. But who knows? She might've just made a new best friend at this like, and where she lives. Yeah, it's literally putting yourself, would I do that to go date? I don't know if I would do that with dating. haha. Friendship is very different. Uh-huh, exactly. Exactly, like you just like, you don't know what you're gonna get. And you know, yeah, being really intentional, like what do I?

Shay Frago (01:04:39.093)
No, it's a friendship is different. I mean, I just bumble BFF to make the email. A effort. Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:04:53.634)
what I wanna receive and what am I willing to give in this friendship? You just don't wanna be that friend that is taking and taking and taking, and you're not giving back. Being very conscious about how you're showing up in your relationship. I would say, yeah, don't be afraid to lean in and just go to communal experiences and events. Going to women's circles is such a thing now, it's very real. Final piece, okay.

Shay Frago (01:05:08.467)
Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:05:22.156)
What's one quality that you look for in a female friend that makes you feel safe and supported?

Shay Frago (01:05:28.563)
I feel like being a good listener. I feel like a person who just listens, this is true for dating too, it's not just only them talking, but there's a genuine curiosity of getting to know each other and they are deeply present in listening. You can feel when someone's half-checked out listening and you can feel when someone's genuinely engaged in the conversation and listening to you and I feel like...

Rebecca Espinoza (01:05:32.234)
Mm-hmm.

Shay Frago (01:05:56.507)
when someone can have that deep level of presence, there is something that can stem from that, is my personal opinion.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:06:04.128)
Yeah, I agree, the listening piece. it's just like a, it's a natural flow of like bouncing back off from each other. You know, it's easy. That's just like, there's easy. And for me, I would also say something that makes me feel like safe. And this is something that I'm really realizing because I'm working at this location now and it's all women. It's like all women. And some women I feel,

so easy around in some room, my guard is up, and I'm noticing that really like, what's the difference here? And I think naturally it's just like an energy and as a present, it's an energy and in essence, and you're not gonna vibe with everyone and that's okay, like you're not meant to. And I'm very much, that's gonna be something for me to work on where I'm like, I don't need to like everyone and everyone doesn't need to like me and that's okay. But I also think it's just, for me I've noticed it's like, it's this ease that.

the person holds within themselves where it's just like they don't have to try so hard. And I noticed that with, because I feel like when someone has to try really hard, I get very suspicious and my guard gets goes up. I'm like, I don't know what's happening here. And that's with dating too. If someone's just trying really hard, like, I don't really trust you. Like, why are you trying so hard? And that's just definitely, and that's just like a personal thing, right? And I'm noticing that I also just like had a whole

Shay Frago (01:07:10.82)
Yeah. Yeah.

Shay Frago (01:07:20.664)
It comes from an insecurity usually. Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:07:28.974)
girls week and there was like 13 of us and it was that. was like, hmm, why do I not feel so like I feel guarded around certain people and not around others and then I just met all of them and it's that. Like it's a little bit of everything, you know, so that's it. I think we touched on a lot. I mean, is there anything else on your heart that you want to share before we close off?

Shay Frago (01:07:50.146)
No, I feel good.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:07:52.514)
Yeah, that felt like a very rich episode and just, yeah, just very real. So once again, as always, if this episode resonated with you, please, please, please rate it, comment, share it with a friend, share it with someone else who's going through something similar as this journey deepening into sisterhood, maybe overcoming a sisterhood wound. Sharing these episodes and getting the conversation going is how we continue to grow the Vida community and just, yeah, just make these conversations.

bit more of a norm, which is what I think we need in our world right now, just heart-centered connection. So thank you again, everyone, for being here and for listening, and we'll see you next week.

Shay Frago (01:08:26.894)
you

Shay Frago (01:08:32.111)
Bye.