63. On Being a Multi-Dimensional Creative and The Power of Giving Up with Mike Kelly.

Please note: the video of the interview begins after the intro.

In this engaging conversation, Rebecca chats with the multi-dimensional creative and music mastermind, Mike Kelly. He hops on the mic to share his wisdom drops on riding the waves of creativity. As someone who has lived a past life as a rockstar and now curates meditative symphonies, Mike offers a plethora of insightful guidance for those walking this unconventional path as an artist. These 2 creatives dive into topics that every artist needs to hear - the power of giving up, the ability art has to start conversations, and the importance of staying patient with passion. 

Mike is an artist whose journey spans music production, curated immersive experiences, and mindful exploration. Beginning with his electronic music group, SAVOY, he has performed on renowned stages such as Lollapalooza, Soldier Field, Ultra Miami, and Red Rocks Amphitheater. After a decade of international touring, Mike transitioned from creating music for energetic raves to composing for our least excited states. Through his meditation label, Mindwell Records, he has released over 100 meditation compositions, collectively inspiring more than 200 years of calm through intentional listening. Since 2018, his professional journey has expanded as he co-created, produced, and marketed viral immersive experiences in Brooklyn and Los Angeles. Today, he collaborates with global entertainment agencies to bring ambitious, ticketed attractions to market in the experiential sector, with a current focus on the groundbreaking launch of the first museum of AI arts. Alongside his scale-oriented endeavors, Mike co-founded and hosts Universal Harmonics, a mindful nightlife experience in Los Angeles that fosters both human connection and inward reflection. 

Key Moments

• Balancing input and output is crucial for authentic creativity.
• Creating art for oneself is important, but audience consideration matters too.
• Art has the power to shape and influence culture.
• Persistence is key for artists whose work may not be immediately understood.
• Living life fully provides the richest sources of inspiration.
• The creative process involves honest communication and direct expression.
• Timing can play a significant role in how new artistic expressions are received.
• There is strength in recognizing when to give up on a project.
• Passion in creativity can come in waves and is not always constant.
• Creativity is more than just being on stage - it can be applied to all areas of life.
• Universal Harmonics was created to cater to a mindful audience seeking alternative nightlife.
• Mindful fun can redefine nightlife, making it more inclusive and supportive.
• Reflection on experiences can deepen appreciation for the moment.

Connect with Mike:

https://www.mindwellrecords.com/

https://www.instagram.com/universalharmonics

https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelkellycreates/

Brand Affiliates

Dr. Sari's Lunar Sync 

VIDA20 for 20% off your entire order

Wildling

VIDA10 for 10% off your entire order

Follow us!

https://www.instagram.com/vidathepodcast

https://www.tiktok.com/@listentovida

https://www.instagram.com/rebeccaaespinoza

https://www.instagram.com/shayfrago

Chapters

• 3:00 Navigating Inspiration and Chaos
• 5:54 The Balance of Input and Output
• 9:10 Creating for Self vs. Audience
• 11:57 The Role of Art in Culture
• 15:01 Exploring New Sounds and Timing
• 18:07 Persistence in Creative Expression
• 21:00 The Journey of Becoming a Creative
• 25:41 Navigating the Music Industry: Planning and Execution
• 38:27 The Power of Giving Up: A Unique Perspective
• 46:14 Passion and Transition: Navigating Creative Paths
• 56:52 Universal Harmonics: Creating Community Through Music
• 1:01:40 The Birth of Universal Harmonics
• 1:03:25 Creating a Mindful Nightlife Experience
• 1:05:36 Community and Collaboration in Events
• 1:09:56 Reflections on Experience and Mindfulness
• 1:15:42 Rapid Fire Insights and Personal Favorites

Transcript

Rebecca Espinoza (00:01.738)
Mr. Kelly, welcome to Viva. Thank you so much for being here with us.

Mike Kelly (00:08.322)
Thank you. Good to be here.

Rebecca Espinoza (00:10.4)
I'm really excited to have you. This is gonna feel like just a really special conversation because I think you and I always, we always just drop into, I feel like they're casual conversations, but they always end up being potent in some ways. And they're always some of my favorite conversations. So I'm excited to just, to share that with our community and to share what you have experienced in life and your wisdom that you have to offer with everyone. So I'm excited that you're here.

Mike Kelly (00:41.176)
Great, well yeah, happy to share some of my experiences. know, like I don't always follow the advice I give to other people. As the creative process, business process, like personal growth kind of journey together, you know, it is becoming more consistent. yeah, I've done some, taken some unusual paths. So relevant for a lot of your listeners.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:07.465)
Mm-hmm.

Yes, I think it'll honestly land with a lot of people. So before we get into the deep stuff, we usually like to ask the question, como esta tu corazon? Which is, how is your heart doing today?

Mike Kelly (01:25.72)
The heart is good. It's a meta time where there's a lot of projects happening that require different modes of thinking. And sometimes that's not the way I like to work. So I guess, yeah, I'm feeling inspired, but sometimes there's these moments of resistance that maybe I'm being spread too thin.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:51.181)
Yeah.

Mike Kelly (01:55.82)
But whether it's creative or business when you don't have a lot of things going on, could not feel good either. So it's nice to find that balance. And I'm constantly reminding myself that these are all different muscles and expressions I get to explore and put out into the world. And that keeps me going.

Rebecca Espinoza (02:16.81)
Yeah, you are a busy man right now. And yeah, you do have a lot of exciting projects going on in different realms that all seem to connect in some ways as well, which we'll get into one that you shared with me casually dropped yesterday over dinner, which is a one I'm really excited about for you. Curious, mentioned inspiration and kind of a lot going on. Does inspiration ever feel like chaos to you?

Mike Kelly (02:41.816)
I think it could. if that's the chaos is information that I think could be. But yeah, I I think entrepreneurs could relate to this, but there was like looking for that secret thing that's missing that secret product. I think creatives like are similar where you have these like little satellite dishes and you're

Rebecca Espinoza (02:44.334)
Hmm.

Rebecca Espinoza (02:50.318)
Mmm.

Rebecca Espinoza (03:00.547)
Yeah.

Mike Kelly (03:10.018)
picking up on these frequencies that are maybe like just below the surface. So yeah, sometimes that is chaos. And I think it's like good to be aware of that and like what it feels like or what that sounds like because then you could kind of start like talking about it.

Rebecca Espinoza (03:14.584)
Mm-hmm.

Rebecca Espinoza (03:22.466)
Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (03:29.836)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I feel like, you know, I asked that because I feel like when sometimes when inspiration hits, it's like a spark of overwhelm in some ways. And there's just like maybe the downloads are coming through and you're like, how do I keep up with it? How do I catch it? And I'm sure maybe even with like making music that comes through for you and maybe in some ways it can feel like chaos. But I love the perspective that you shared about its information. And it's just like, how do we sift through the information to make it more?

localize and just create a product or creation that is succinct and being able to kind of move through all of that. yeah.

Mike Kelly (04:09.942)
Yeah, sometimes it comes through stages where like you kind of sift through it. I think, you know, you need to sit with whatever information it is, whether it's like a subtle piece of knowledge or something that's more chaotic. Yeah, I don't always have like a quick response or distillation of that information. But yeah, sometimes

Rebecca Espinoza (04:35.49)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Kelly (04:38.04)
I find there's periods of just like inputs, right? Like, you know, just you're kind of listening, you're writing, you're a writer, poet, like moments where you're just absorbing. And then there's the quieter times where you could kind of sit with those notes and just, I guess all that information you picked up along the way, do something with it.

Rebecca Espinoza (04:41.486)
Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (04:48.916)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (04:56.44)
Mm-hmm.

Rebecca Espinoza (05:03.0)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, exactly. And yeah, the I feel like the receiving the information piece is like, you know, I actually read this in Rick Rubin's book that you recommended the creative act. This is the first the first time I ever heard of the book is when you recommended it. And he was mentioning how.

You know, creatives can get really caught up in the act of creating. So the doing and the output and, you know, what are we producing? What are we making? And, you know, really keeping ourselves in a rigorous process in some ways sometimes. But he also mentioned a big part of the creative's job or responsibilities also to just live, because that is where the input comes from. The inspiration comes from is like going out and interacting with the world.

and not knowing when or where those sparks of inspirations may hit because you're in a specific environment, because you witnessed something, because you were with a specific person. So I think that balance of like, the input and the output is so important. And I know, especially when we're involved in so many things, because I'm similar to you where I like to have, where it's like, I've ended up in situations where my hands are in many things and creative projects that it's kind of like.

There's a lot of output happening sometimes that we, I wonder, I'm like, okay, when am I leaving space for the input to like receive the downloads to experience and then go create more authentically.

Mike Kelly (06:37.57)
Did you find that you agreed with most of that book?

Rebecca Espinoza (06:41.166)
That's a good question. I feel like there was a lot that did actually resonate and I want to reread it again. There was, it was the book that I was, did you finish it? Did you get through it? Yeah. There was, did you resonate with it?

Mike Kelly (06:50.242)
Hmm.

Mike Kelly (06:59.958)
Absolutely. Yeah, there were some things that I just take as kind of inspiration and other things that I took more as like, here's like a process that I've got. But generally speaking, yes, I think a lot of creative, then you're in an interesting conundrum where you're outputting a lot, a lot of...

Rebecca Espinoza (07:01.091)
Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (07:15.746)
Yes.

Rebecca Espinoza (07:27.842)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Kelly (07:28.78)
think get caught in their heads. And I found that book is like a way to, to encourage you to just keep creating without expectations in mind. And in a lot of ways, I think that's what distinguishes between people that we heard of and not like, people that have their ideas, they're so grand, or they're thinking about it so strategically and creatively that, like,

Rebecca Espinoza (07:37.773)
Yeah.

Mike Kelly (07:58.104)
It's too overwhelming to start. And I could relate to that. But at the same time, I think I consider my audience is more than he might.

Rebecca Espinoza (08:00.575)
Exactly.

Rebecca Espinoza (08:14.978)
You've mentioned that a few times. I'm curious, like what you mean by that. Can you share like considering? Because I think that's, I mean, you kind of spoke, you kind of spoke with it yesterday when we were talking over dinner about this collaboration you were doing with certain artists for your music and, you know, saying like, I have a very specific audience and this is what I'm going to curate to. Can you share a little bit about what you mean by

considering your audience more because I think that's a big journey with a creative as well because once eyes are on you or ears are on you I think the question arises of like, what kind of content am I creating and why am I creating it and am I creating it for my audience or am I creating it just because I want to express and let whatever wants to come through come through regardless if it's going to land with my audience.

Mike Kelly (09:10.68)
Yeah, yeah, we did talk about that. I mean, I think a producer asked me a question once, a friend of mine, and he said, he asked if you could create the best song you've ever heard, but you could share it with no one. Would you like to do that or what if there's a song that was very good, you were proud of it, let's call it 8.5 out of 10?

Rebecca Espinoza (09:29.795)
Boom.

Okay.

Rebecca Espinoza (09:38.498)
Wow.

Mike Kelly (09:40.972)
that the whole world listen to. And let's put the monetary implications of maybe a whole world listening to your music, because maybe throw off the balance for some, but just it really opens up the question is who are you making the music for? Is it yourself or is it that, you know,

Rebecca Espinoza (09:44.291)
Mm.

Rebecca Espinoza (09:53.582)
haha

Rebecca Espinoza (10:02.4)
Exactly.

Mike Kelly (10:08.226)
connecting that inner self and like communicating that with others to get feedback and possibly inspire or start conversations or just get a whole stadium people head banging, right? Like, so I think art that makes impact tends to open up some type of communication and dialogue the same way. Like there's,

Rebecca Espinoza (10:31.007)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Kelly (10:33.452)
There's inputs and outputs and there's responses and within that communication structure, there's like cultural context and there might be static in the way that might be interfering the clarity of a message. And yeah, at the end of the day, my answer to that question was like, I would rather communicate to an audience. And that's why I do it. I don't do it so I could listen to my own music.

Rebecca Espinoza (10:59.338)
Yeah, we actually talked about that the other day or yesterday where I was like, do you listen to the music that you make? Like, because I'm over here listening to Mindwell like during my meditations and I'm like, putting it on to help me drop in. I'm like, I wonder if Mike ever does that. And it's the same thing of like, do actors watch their own films? I think, you know, I love and again, bringing it back to Rick Rubin. He's just a big, I mean, he's someone that's made impact, right?

He said something similar about like art shapes and forms cultures. that's, it's a big part. Art is a big part of making culture and it feeds into, and then the culture then feeds into the art and the art feeds into the culture and it's just like the symbiotic relationship. So I love that you were honest about that because I think in the creative fields,

Rebecca Espinoza (11:57.356)
There is this, for me at least is what I've seen. It's like, you need to make your art for yourself first and foremost. Like you need to do this for yourself. It doesn't matter who's listening. It doesn't matter who's reading. It doesn't matter who's watching. But in truth, like you said, art has the power to make change. It has the power to inspire others to make change in their own lives and a community level. has the power to bring people together. honestly,

If I'm going to answer that question as well, would do it to, I would write my poetry to share with other people. And there are certain, certain poems that are written that I can't share online, at least not on Instagram because of censorship. And I sometimes wonder, I'm like, damn, like, what am I going to do with this poem?

Mike Kelly (12:33.144)
Mm.

Mike Kelly (12:46.264)
Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (12:48.782)
It's like I read it, I wrote it, I read it, it's great, now what?

Mike Kelly (12:53.048)
Yeah, well, I hope the world could see them one day. Yeah, I mean, I think Rick Rubin would say, I think where he's coming from, and what I do agree with is like speaking honestly and directly usually resonates with people. So if you're trying to filter it too much, you're kind of cluttering the message. And

Rebecca Espinoza (13:11.735)
Yes.

Rebecca Espinoza (13:17.432)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Kelly (13:20.16)
Yeah, it's interesting. There was one time where I was writing an album for a project called Jaguar Dream a years ago. And I found a lot of my inspiration through the song or sound exploder podcast, which artists and talks about how they make their hit songs.

Rebecca Espinoza (13:26.734)
Mmm.

Rebecca Espinoza (13:38.21)
I don't know.

Rebecca Espinoza (13:43.126)
okay.

Mike Kelly (13:44.632)
And it's funny, I didn't go in there looking for like production techniques. What I found is when artists were like speaking about the process of making the music, there were all these like beautiful quotes and concepts that weren't too poetic. They were direct because it was like a podcast and they were just talking, you know, to another human. But it was just observant and I would say

like interesting enough because of their artist brain like this is them trying to be direct with so little a theory.

Rebecca Espinoza (14:18.574)
Yeah.

It's so flowy and creative.

Mike Kelly (14:23.702)
Yeah, and I found the way they spoke about their creative process was more inspirational to me than the song itself. And it's funny, there's so many lines throughout the album that I pulled from just interviews of them talking about their struggles of writing the song, like not even about the song itself, which, I don't

Rebecca Espinoza (14:39.555)
Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (14:44.654)
just the creative process in itself.

Mike Kelly (14:48.342)
Yeah, and it was that direct communication that I think Rick could be hinting at where he's just like, you know, let it go. And I know for Paul McCartney and George Harrison, that was a big part of their process. Just like, say what you mean. Don't make it too ethereal.

Rebecca Espinoza (15:01.602)
Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (15:09.376)
Yeah, I think that's a big one to take into consideration as well because at end of the day, especially if you're writing to make impact, right? You want people to know and understand what it is exactly like you're trying to storytell. Yeah. And okay, so we've talked, I mean, we've been talking about music and like what you do or like hinting to kind of what you do. So let's talk a little bit about that.

Mike Kelly (15:34.616)
Well, do have one point to add to like, to the thinking about the audience. So I could, I could kick that back up. Let me think about this.

Rebecca Espinoza (15:38.904)
Okay.

Okay, yes, please.

Rebecca Espinoza (15:45.994)
Okay.

Mike Kelly (15:55.448)
So while I think it's good to put creative barriers on, I don't think that should limit the kind of your artist expression. I think sometimes it's good to have different projects for different messages and styles. A direct example, I had an artist that had a lot of nature sounds on Spotify, Pandora.

If I started introducing white noise or maybe ambient music tracks, you could say, sure, I'm feeling that as an artist, put it out. But you need to consider the marketplace sometimes. I want X artists to be associated with nature sounds so there's a piece of delivery of an expectation when they're looking to acquire something. Now, that doesn't mean we don't create other things.

Rebecca Espinoza (16:38.552)
Mm-hmm.

Rebecca Espinoza (16:48.64)
Exactly.

Mike Kelly (16:53.312)
I think there's sometimes like certain lanes that could be good for even more direct communication if you're able to kind of strip it out a little.

Rebecca Espinoza (17:03.352)
have a follow-up question to that with like, you know, staying in the lanes and maybe.

Is there, have you noticed, is there ever like an aligned time or does timing matter when it comes to maybe doing a little bit of a shift in the type of content that you are creating, putting out there? Like just, yeah, like when, I guess, let me see how I can phrase this. Because I think about artists, especially even like musicians and like we have some friends who,

other friends that are musicians and I've heard them speak about just like, you know, they're exploring other sounds and other kind of music. But like, when is the right time to introduce that new kind of expression of the self and the art? And is it going to take people by surprise? And I guess even sometimes like a little bit like the Beatles were kind of exploring a little bit with like different kind of music here and there. The psychedelic rock, their psychedelic rock era at one point, you know. So I'm curious if you have any insight on that.

Mike Kelly (18:07.946)
Yeah, that's a good question. I think that's a lot of, you know, there's a lot of times when you dig into your instincts there. I think there's research and when you're going through a discovery into new sound or a new message, sometimes it takes a while to really understand what that means to you. So I wouldn't say that needs to be rushed, but

Rebecca Espinoza (18:16.248)
Mm-hmm.

Rebecca Espinoza (18:29.955)
Yeah.

Mike Kelly (18:35.788)
Yeah, I mean, sometimes what I reverse engineer almost back to that question is like, if everyone in the world did listen to this thing or see this piece of art, like, what do you want it to say in one sentence? And you don't have to necessarily like find the absolute answer, but really starting to refine that answer, I think helps further understand where you are at in

Rebecca Espinoza (18:51.502)
Mm.

Rebecca Espinoza (19:04.75)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Kelly (19:05.696)
So that's something I do for myself. Some people are more spontaneous and they're like, I found this cool sound and I found this cool thing. Like bam, it's out next. And I, you know, there's times where I do that too a little bit. So I think it really depends on like the scope and scale of the project.

Rebecca Espinoza (19:13.006)
Pray.

Rebecca Espinoza (19:24.952)
Definitely, yeah. And you know, sometimes you may create something and maybe you are doing a shift and a change in the direction you're going with and maybe it doesn't land right now, but maybe in 10 years it'll land with the demographic that's present or the trends that are present now. There are some artists that are ahead of their time, right? Or they're saying a message in a way that doesn't land now.

but it will in a few years from now. either way, like having the art out there is, you don't know when or how it'll impact.

Mike Kelly (20:01.514)
Yeah, I think that's a good point. And it also brings up the notion of some of the people on the forefronts that are misunderstood or the world isn't ready for their work. And I think that's when persistence becomes important. There's a lot of people that might just give up even though they're onto something.

Rebecca Espinoza (20:15.48)
Hmm.

Rebecca Espinoza (20:29.922)
Yeah, exactly.

Mike Kelly (20:31.38)
light up the world. yeah, that is kind of like this. Sometimes the sad part of our world is like, really new things are exciting, but it takes a little time to like change someone's whole concept of an art form. It takes a lot of courage. So I think persistence there is important. And it's also good to understand that like maybe this project will then lead to something else.

Rebecca Espinoza (20:44.258)
Mm-hmm.

Rebecca Espinoza (20:48.352)
Yeah, it does.

Rebecca Espinoza (21:00.526)
Mm hmm. Yes, exactly. You don't know what that process could have sparked or like even if the end result could have sparked and yeah, the persistence piece is really important because throughout that process, if the end result isn't received in the way that was expected, it could be linked to failure. you know, you had a you had a take on failure that we talked about super briefly that we'll get into. I definitely really want to.

dive into that because I think that's an important piece to share. But I think people have to know a little bit about who you are and the path you took to kind of how you ended up in perceiving failure in the way that you do. So, you know, you're clearly a creative at heart. You're a musician and you work in experiential events. You're an entrepreneur. And, you know, I personally believe being an entrepreneur

goes hand in hand with being a creative. So I'm curious to know when was the moment you realized you were a creative and this is a path you are going to devote yourself to in some ways.

Mike Kelly (22:08.792)
Yeah, I don't think there was like a defining moment for me. I think, you know, was surrounded in a family that enjoyed music and they were creative. But yeah, out of like my three siblings, there was four of us total. You know, you could tell even from an early stage, I was maybe a little bit different in my interests.

Rebecca Espinoza (22:14.379)
No.

Mike Kelly (22:38.596)
I was like writing books and stuff when I was a blind and music at an early age. But it's funny, like, I think when it came down to, you know, choosing a career, like I was already just making music and touring, you know, in college, playing music festivals and releasing music. So it was kind of like when we graduated.

Rebecca Espinoza (22:41.23)
Aww. I love this.

Rebecca Espinoza (22:59.394)
Yeah. Yeah.

Mike Kelly (23:06.53)
College, was this weird thing where like our career was already kind of blossoming. And it came from a lot of sacrifice, like, like, are we going to study abroad? Everyone's doing these like cool things. And we're like, we're just going to, no, like we're going to grind out our goal is to, you know, whatever, find red rocks or play Lollapalooza. And like, there's all these like moments where we're like, okay, like we're like in the college experience.

Rebecca Espinoza (23:11.598)
happening. Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (23:19.127)
Ray...

Rebecca Espinoza (23:25.932)
Yeah.

Mike Kelly (23:35.724)
but we're in this slightly different category of motivation.

Rebecca Espinoza (23:40.846)
Yeah, I mean, it was a very unique college experience because you were still having the experience of college. But with this twist of being like you were attending festivals, which I was attending these festivals that you're probably playing at. But you're on stage. And it's just like a lot of kids are that age or students that age are going to attend as festival attendees versus you're on stage. It's just, yeah.

What was that experience like?

Mike Kelly (24:13.664)
I mean, I think I had been going to festivals and concerts since like fifth grade. So for me, it's like, was always like, yeah, like, I'm going to do that. It's going to take time. You know, it's not like one day you just get plopped in front of 10,000 people, but, you know, yeah, like you start doing things in stages and, getting positive feedback and just, you know, we worked.

Rebecca Espinoza (24:25.346)
Wow.

Mike Kelly (24:42.092)
you know, me and my two band members at the time where it's really hard, like we're constantly in like six, seven hour studio practice sessions.

Rebecca Espinoza (24:50.872)
How are you doing that with college classes too? Okay, like let's rewind. Like how did the idea come to be the conception of just like, we're gonna make a band and then suddenly start touring. Like how old are you guys? And how are you balancing all of that six, seven hours studio sessions with class and those responsibilities?

Mike Kelly (24:55.073)
Yeah.

Mike Kelly (25:12.884)
Yeah, I mean, it was tricky. Like we all took education pretty seriously and like, you we weren't like failing at a class or anything. Like we found a balance. I mean, none of us were on like advanced doctorate programs.

Rebecca Espinoza (25:31.374)
What did you study? I don't even know what you studied.

Mike Kelly (25:33.877)
I was communications.

Rebecca Espinoza (25:35.342)
Communications, okay.

Mike Kelly (25:37.78)
The other guys were business and finance. It was good. mean, like we had our own little, you know, like business pod as well.

Rebecca Espinoza (25:41.097)
Okay.

Rebecca Espinoza (25:49.29)
Yeah, for like managing yourselves, you know, I'm sure you guys are managing your own band to begin with and setting up the tours and you guys in some ways had the brain for that because of what you were doing academically, which is kind of cool.

Mike Kelly (26:04.042)
Yeah, like I don't think every college bands like reverse engineering out of a business plan with like five and 10 year goals. Like, like we, we were, you know, call it visualizing or just planning. Like, like we had a plan and we were kind of executing every bullet point along the way. And, you know, we got lucky at times and then there were times where we got completely screwed. But, so those bullet points shift a little bit, but,

But yeah, was really, I don't take for granted having, you know, kind of been on the stages that I would go to as a fan. Now, yeah, like, and when I go to shows today, whether it's a festival or a concert, there's part of me that's still very excited for the people on stage and for the experience I'm having. And then like that little motivation, that little like angel on the shoulder that's like,

Rebecca Espinoza (26:41.166)
Hmm.

Rebecca Espinoza (26:53.186)
Yeah.

Mike Kelly (27:03.084)
You could do it again.

Rebecca Espinoza (27:06.744)
I know I ask you all the time where I'm just like, would you like, would you go back to doing that? And we'll get into the conversation too about, you know, the path of the full path of the artists and fully committing to that. But I remember when I met you and I found out you were like, you're a mean full blown, you know, Megan was like, yeah, Mike used to be a full blown rock star. He was like a drummer. And I was like, I'm sorry,

Mike Kelly (27:34.52)
That's nerd.

Rebecca Espinoza (27:37.001)
I'm just like, cannot see Mike. But then I got to know you and I got to see you and experience your magic with music when you DJ, because now you DJ and you you're a vibe setter. That's literally what I call you. And, you know, every time you're throwing down songs, I'm just like on the dance floor enjoying it. Or I'm like feeling deeply feeling because of the meditative music you're putting together now. And I'm like, oh, OK, yeah.

Mike was a rock star. I could see that. And I'm just like, is he going to come back? Is Apollo Walker going to do it?

Mike Kelly (28:15.48)
Yeah, that's a good question. Well, I think there is, I mean, going back to the kind of the journey and doing what you think the world needs more of, like, I think it was from the Rick Rubin book where they said, he said, not every project takes time, but every project takes a lifetime. And, you know, that's kind of how I see it, where these things have kind of...

Rebecca Espinoza (28:35.074)
Yes.

Mike Kelly (28:43.458)
you know, for whatever reason aligned in a certain way that are unique to my life. And I think will result to like a unique creative result. So, yeah, I mean, there's, I don't know what I'm going to do next. I have some ideas, but I think that whole journey from making music for our most excited states,

Rebecca Espinoza (28:53.88)
Mm-hmm.

Rebecca Espinoza (29:03.246)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Kelly (29:09.834)
and now shifting to music for our least excited states has just kind of taught me not only like the different ways that you can communicate with an audience and have an effect on their kind of being, but also what musical tools compositionally, sound design wise, like what are the similarities and what are the differences? Because before I used to be like,

Rebecca Espinoza (29:27.054)
Yeah.

Mike Kelly (29:39.596)
more bass, more drums, bigger drops. Those were the important parts of a composition. Now we're kind of designing for a different result. And it's kind of forced me to explore other ways of taking people through a journey that might not be as dynamic, but equally or possibly more influential.

Rebecca Espinoza (29:41.089)
Hmm.

Rebecca Espinoza (29:46.818)
Right.

Mike Kelly (30:09.31)
on the state.

Rebecca Espinoza (30:12.514)
I wanna talk a little bit about what you said with, know, cause you are influencing people with this music, with music you're making. I think, I just think musicians, the first time I had this thought of like, music is a spiritual experience, like we've talked about this before, cause it's sound and it's frequency, right? And the first time I had a moment where I was like, I felt,

like I was hypnotized by music and I felt like the musician, which by the way, it was the weekend at Coachella and I was there was a lot of acid involved. So for me, I definitely had the perspective of like, wow, the weekend is God right now because the music that everyone was just in tune and just there listening. And in some ways it felt like church, right? And the

level of hypnosis that I guess we were all under just literally standing there in some ways worshiping like this artist that is there or the music or the the feeling that the music was inspiring within us. How did how does that feel in regards I'm like and of course from like I trust that everything that you're going to say it's from a place of like authenticity but like how does that and you're of course welcome to be honest how does it feel

being in a state where you're like, there behind the drum set or you're there behind your decks, knowing that you are influencing, have that power. Really, it's like a power or it's like the ability of a magician to impact and influence people in that way. One on the dance floor, but even if they're just like in their own space, headphones in, like how does that feel?

Does it feel like it's a sense of power? What does it feel like?

Mike Kelly (32:13.92)
I think it does. I think it depends on the format. So typically when you're like playing music festivals, you're developing a set in advance for because you you're coordinating a lot of electronic instrumentation and communication. You need to be recalling sounds live. So that's a little bit more like a performative play typically. I'm going speak for everyone but

modern day like festival set, you know, in the music industry, it's like you have a 60 minute set and a 90 minute set. It's pretty much built out just like a theater show would be. Now some people might say that's not artistic, but I think it is. It's artistic in the same way a Broadway show is. Like it is perfectly designed with every cue and lighting point. Like that's not all improvised.

Rebecca Espinoza (32:56.366)
Hmm.

Mike Kelly (33:12.14)
when you go to a theater show, it doesn't mean that it doesn't have artistic value. So in that sense, I would say the festival shows and some of the headlining shows at venues are like that too, but in those settings, you might be kind of like a little bit more flowy. It does feel powerful, but it feels a little performative too.

Rebecca Espinoza (33:38.338)
Hmm.

Mike Kelly (33:39.308)
where you're an actor on stage. Now you're still playing an instrument, but there are moments of, you you zoom out, like you're very in the zone at times musically, or like you're not thinking about much other than just like being in this musical flow state. But it's to zoom out sometimes and be like, you know, think about things on this level. But...

Rebecca Espinoza (33:41.496)
Wow. Okay.

Rebecca Espinoza (33:53.709)
Mm-hmm.

Rebecca Espinoza (33:58.894)
Go.

Rebecca Espinoza (34:05.23)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Kelly (34:07.938)
There are moments where you do zoom out of yourself and you're like, this is incredible. Like how out of these 10,000 people, like how am I the guy up here? And you're kind of like, you yourself and then you need to like pump up the crowd a second later and the characters. So there's like, there's both going on at once while being in this musical flow state. So I can't speak for everyone. For me, there's times when I'm almost like laughing at myself or I'm like talking to my band members on stage because of like a microphone.

Rebecca Espinoza (34:23.034)
haha

Mike Kelly (34:37.336)
in your sets. You know, look at that guy, like, that's like an idiot or whatever. Like, it's not all this, like, spiritual experience, is. And I have been emotional on stage before. But I'd say with the DJ experience, I'm a lot more sensitive to what's happening and how the crowd's responding. So I'd say there's different, like, modes of performance musically, where

Rebecca Espinoza (34:37.838)
Mm.

Rebecca Espinoza (34:43.235)
haha

Rebecca Espinoza (34:47.69)
Yeah

Mike Kelly (35:07.704)
Same maybe with like a jazz musician, they might be doing the same thing where they're like really picking up on every single moment and then responding to that live. So with DJing, it's more of a conversation. And I think there's these moments where you might be like, feel kind of powerful to a degree, but I think a good DJ is listening and not just like taking the crowd on whatever journey they want.

Rebecca Espinoza (35:16.514)
Mm-hmm.

Rebecca Espinoza (35:20.27)
Okay.

Mike Kelly (35:37.186)
to go, I think they need to consider like how the crowd is responding just like a, yeah, like a meeting.

Rebecca Espinoza (35:37.408)
Right.

Rebecca Espinoza (35:44.61)
That is, wow. I think that is very, I mean, that just goes, and we'll get into share a little bit about what you've created at Universal Harmonics. It's just like the power of music to be this very conducive and like healing journey. Because I feel like I've heard of quite a few DJs say that as well. It's just like when I asked them about their set.

they're gonna have when they're gonna go perform like, well, I'm also just gonna see how the crowd like I have a few different things like tracks, but I'm gonna see how the crowd is responding and vibing to and I think that is so that is very, I think that is that is power and that is like a level of responsibility to because you're truly curating based off of the the audit the audience and that goes kind of goes back to what you were saying is just like sharing with

in consideration of like the audience, know, when you share and create your music, you have your audience in mind. And I think that's, that is, that can't, that is a bit different. I can see that being different from, you know, being in a band and just, you have your set list and that's what, know, exactly what you're going to play. So I think that's really beautiful.

Mike Kelly (37:01.492)
Yeah, and I think there's some DJs that are like, I'm doing this regardless. And sometimes it works, but you could tell when the crowd is like really engaged in this like, kind of like interconnected level with the music, the DJ, each other. And I think that often comes from the DJ taking more of a modest approach. Maybe say, I'm going to take you to point C, but we're not going to start there.

I'm gonna like navigate, there's gonna be a journey that we're gonna get to together. Now I'm not exactly yet there. I know I have this B section, but we need to connect these pieces. But yeah, I think any DJ has had these fantasies of this beautiful set. And then after song two is like, okay, we need to totally go in a different direction. There's three people that showed up or whatever. Like, I think you really got a plan for the moment. I think a DJ is.

Rebecca Espinoza (37:35.554)
Mm-hmm.

Rebecca Espinoza (37:42.093)
Wow.

Rebecca Espinoza (37:58.762)
Yeah. Yeah, amazing. OK, so you started off, you know, with you're in the band, you were touring. And when, when did you when and why did you decide to walk away from that? You know, and we can talk about also, you know, that giving up and the quote unquote failure because you have a really

unique perspective on that that I want to definitely get into. And yeah, when did that happen and why?

Mike Kelly (38:35.288)
Yeah, so we've been touring for like 10 years, which some of it was on the rock star, kind of like what you see in the movies level to some degree. And then a lot of it was like touring in a super outback or in like a van. So by the time you get to this like kind of more glorious point, like you're already pretty, pretty exhausted. And yeah, I think

I think your heart like really needs to be in it. There's a lot of sacrifice as silly as it sounds like, yeah, most people look at these like people on TV or some college dorm room poster, but there's like an idolization of this lifestyle, but it could be really tiring and there's a lot of sacrifice. Like you're not around much at all.

Rebecca Espinoza (39:30.178)
Yeah.

Mike Kelly (39:31.78)
And, there's other professions that could relate to that. don't want to, you know, put it right on, on the musicians, but it's a lifestyle. And I think we were tired of the lifestyle.

Rebecca Espinoza (39:34.97)
yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (39:46.796)
Absolutely. It's, I mean, devoting your whole life to the lifestyle of like being plugged in all the time. And I'm sure you were playing probably late nights too. And then you get up and tune all over again and probably the difficulty of like maintaining relationships even, cause you're just, you're going to be in a different state like every other day or whatever it was. So there's, you know,

the devotion and just also with like, yeah, that's the output, right? It's like constantly doing the output part and not the input of like having different areas of your life that you're probably living in. And so you, you decided to walk away from that and you you mentioned this power of giving up when we spoke off mic. Can you share a little bit about that and like, what is the power of giving up for a creative and an entrepreneur?

Mike Kelly (40:47.01)
Yeah, I think there's a lot of power in giving up. You don't see that posted too much on Instagram. But I think, yeah, there's a stigma about failure in our culture. And, you know, in the entrepreneurial community, there's fail fast is like a mantra, but they don't really tell you how.

Rebecca Espinoza (41:01.559)
Yeah.

Mike Kelly (41:11.926)
And I think, you know, on the business world, they might say, like, what's your market share? Like, let's take a look at, you know, potentials of revenue. But for me, it could be looked at like a little bit more simply. I think for my little equation is composed of two things. It's conviction and is this working? And

if I'm really passionate about something and this was the case for the music for a while and it's not working, meaning maybe financially, I'm okay to keep going.

Rebecca Espinoza (41:49.208)
Okay.

Mike Kelly (41:50.448)
and we were talking about this last night with you, you're like, I'm not, you know, I don't have this grand plan. Like, I just feel really inspired about what I'm doing. And like, that's awesome. That's green light. That's like, that's as good as it gets. and then there's another side of it where maybe it's working financially, but you're not.

Rebecca Espinoza (42:08.194)
Yeah.

Mike Kelly (42:18.998)
you don't believe in it anymore, I would say then you have options to move on. Maybe with like some resources or you could sell a company or maybe you could use that to the next step of something that you are passionate about. So that's kind of like a yellow light, but one that I think you have a few outs. And then if it's not working financially and you're not

Rebecca Espinoza (42:20.632)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Kelly (42:48.45)
passionate, you know, that's the red light. That's like railroad tracks, like flashing, do not proceed. So, you know, I think in the music world, things were working financially to a degree. I wasn't like falling out, but it wasn't enough for the amount of sacrifice and work. And then I was just kind of burnt out.

Rebecca Espinoza (43:13.963)
Right.

Mike Kelly (43:18.296)
creatively. So, you know, it took me a little while to realize all of this. And it's also a big part of your identity and being that would be like, I'm not doing music anymore. And it's like, who am I? Like, that's my relationship, like, you know, business wise and like friendship wise. Collaborators like it just kind of. It's a big shift, not just like, you know, I'm going from like sales to

you know, HR or something like it's a bit more of a change. So that worked for me. I'm not sure if it's as simple for everyone, but I think when you move on, like you take what you learned and then hope a little bit to evolve. And I think most entrepreneurs, they tell a similar story. We're like, they had six or seven failed businesses that they were doing and you know,

Rebecca Espinoza (43:49.102)
Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (44:02.103)
Exactly.

Rebecca Espinoza (44:12.47)
Exactly.

Mike Kelly (44:15.672)
they moved quickly and they learned from.

Rebecca Espinoza (44:17.55)
Exactly. Can we talk a little bit about that? Like, Pat, because you mentioned the passion and I think I'll share a little bit my personal experience too, but, you know, being a creative and being an entrepreneur, that passion is a key ingredient to, I think, the path that you're on. And of course, there's other logistics I need to go into place as well of like, OK, does this actually make sense? I think that's like a constant battle.

At least it has been for me with like being a creative and an entrepreneur of just like, I have the passion and of course having the logistics as well is important. But sometimes because for me and I'm, feel like a lot of people can relate to this too if they're creative, but if I'm doing something, my passion isn't there. I have to walk away. But then I get so upset sometimes because I'm just like, I wish I was someone that

didn't need passion, that I could just work this like normal job and HR or sales and be like, I'm good. Like, I don't, my passion isn't here, but it's, this is the path that I'm on and that's, it works. It creates stability and predictability and that's all right for me. Can you share that any experience? Because you did go from, you know, being in this

full like artist experience that you were doing in that identity piece and being this musician and touring to kind of transitioning into, I guess, working in some ways is traditional, not very traditional, the work that you're doing now, working for this creative agency. Can you share that piece about like that passion and just kind of transitioning between these different paths and seeing how, if it's still important to you or how you navigate that?

Mike Kelly (46:14.52)
Yeah, I mean, the passion comes in waves. Like there's macro versions of it. And then there's those micro days where you're just like, you might be fully in the creative artistic lifestyle. Yeah, you're going to have days where you are maybe even months where like you're not feeling inspired. I think those are worth kind of, you know, kind of plowing through. So yeah, I don't I don't think so much just spontaneously. I'm not feeling it today.

I should move on. yeah, mean, think there's like, think you could see like, creativity to me is just like, it's not tied to like a certain art form all the time. So I could take a lot of those like, skills, observation techniques and kind of apply them to different paths.

Rebecca Espinoza (46:58.67)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Kelly (47:12.76)
and still feel rewarded. Like a lot of it is like puzzle when you like kind of find these like mysterious elements and piece them together and make something cohesive that people not only understand, but maybe like are moved by. Whether that's a song or an advertisement that you have 30 seconds to create or, you know, to share a message. I think, I think there's like that

Rebecca Espinoza (47:27.181)
Mm.

Rebecca Espinoza (47:32.248)
Mm.

Mike Kelly (47:42.552)
Passion is still there for those things. It's not just about like being on a stage.

Rebecca Espinoza (47:51.17)
Yeah, I think the passion, you're right, can be expressed through different avenues as well, or different areas of your life. The way you relate to people, that passion can be there. And I think it's important, what you mentioned, to normalize the fact that it comes in waves. We're not gonna be on this high all the time. And I think I've definitely had to remind myself of that.

give myself grace of like, I'm not feeling passionate to write poetry. I haven't written like poetry in a bit, you know, but considering my life that I've been living and just like the shit that I've been going through and working full time, I'm like, yeah, my passion's gonna be a little depleted right now and that's okay. Maybe I'm just in a rest season and I get to rest and that's, I think it's important to normalize that. So thank you for.

saying that because I also needed to hear it.

Mike Kelly (48:50.9)
And I have a question for you. could relate to, think, what you said.

But going back to the, wish I weren't a passionate person.

What is that like?

Rebecca Espinoza (49:04.238)
It's like that life would just be me being okay with doing the same thing over and over, know, me being okay with working a regular nine to five job and sitting in this 405 traffic on peak hours, day through Friday, I would, you know, I think be okay with that. And I don't think I would be as curious. Therefore, I don't think I would take as many healthy risks.

you know, to explore different avenues and gain these different skills, you know, and if you were to look at my resume and you said this before, it's just like, people, I have all these like experiences, right, that I've done in different industries that I've been in. For me, for a while, and you said this too, like I looked at them like, those all failures because I'm like, I didn't stick with that path.

I didn't stick in that industry now. I'm like all the way over fucking over here, completely different industry. And I've had to talk to my therapist about this a few times from like, I felt like a failure because of that, because I was just like going from the next thing to the next thing, because my passion was like, now we're over here now. And like, we're going to go explore this. But I will say I gained so many life experiences and wisdom, networking and connection and all of those things somehow still connect like the skills that I gained.

were still relevant to the next path that I walked. So I will say that I think my life would look a little bit more boring, but I think there's more predictability, which sometimes I crave predictability because of how that freelance life or the creative life can be a bit unpredictable. But it's just a way that you're choosing to ride because you're the kind of person that needs passion in your life.

Mike Kelly (51:00.76)
Yeah, I like defining the resume as a list of failures, like we were joking about that. And in some ways, it's not always true. Like people move a lot. They did such a good job that another company had to move a man. But, know, to like add a little context to that, like, if a lot of people not rising to the top and becoming CEO and then selling the company for like a billion dollars, right? Like

Rebecca Espinoza (51:11.612)
No.

Mike Kelly (51:29.374)
When you look at someone's resume, is kind of like, these are all the things that I did, but like not to completion. And a lot of people did get fired, you know, and that's why they had they got their next job. Like it is this meandering kind of like list of accomplishments, but also kind of like incomplete work to some degree. But I think I think there's some people that

Rebecca Espinoza (51:36.501)
Yeah.

Mike Kelly (51:59.274)
value doing things, exploring things and getting things done. And then there's other people that might look at things a little bit differently. They think about maybe a certain metric that you accomplished on a certain project and they want that. They're like, I don't really care about all these things you did, but you generated this ROI or like you did this.

Rebecca Espinoza (52:05.518)
Mm-hmm.

Rebecca Espinoza (52:26.83)
Yeah.

Mike Kelly (52:28.696)
marketing plan, like that's what I'm looking for. But it was kind of interesting on the last job interview that I had, the CEO was looking at the resume and kind of quizzically looking at some of these things. she was like, you did all this? And I was like, yeah. I was like, you know, talk about this project, this happened.

She's like, want to know about this project in particular. I was like, okay, like we raised this, we did this, we executed this really cool experiential project, proud of it, but it was a financial failure to some degree. And she's like, no, I don't care about that. I just want to make sure that you did all that. yeah, I did. She's like, well, tell me about the operations, tell me about the creative, tell me about the production.

Tell me about how you manage your What software did you use? We were just talking and she's like, I need people that do. And she's like, don't, you know, care about the results as much. Like she's like, that's my job. Like I'll make sure these things happen. But if you do all these things, like I'm like, a lot of people say things. The fact that you were actively involved and curious and passionate about things.

Rebecca Espinoza (53:25.454)
Ugh.

Rebecca Espinoza (53:33.635)
Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (53:47.051)
Yeah.

Mike Kelly (53:54.07)
Like that's what I'm looking for. And that's not always easy to in a leader. And I think eventually just kind of, if you keep doing stuff, people that want people that do stuff will find you.

Rebecca Espinoza (54:07.896)
they'll notice, they'll notice. I think, gosh, that is like, I think such a great synopsis or a deeper explanation, a more tangible example of that whole thing of of trying. If you didn't try, that's when you really failed. If you didn't do, that's when you really failed. Instead of like talking about, you're gonna go do these things.

That's why recently my path is changing right now. I think my path continues to change because it's like I have this vision, like you mentioned, like I have a vision. I don't have an exact plan. But for me, I'm like, if I want to get to that vision, I need to start doing things that are like microscopically even similar to that bigger vision, the smaller steps that are going to get me there. And that's why I'm now, you know, I've made the most of I can of a certain.

path that I'm on and made it work for me now and taking this additional course, I'm going to take XYZ, right? Because if I want to get there, I need to do, I need to try. And I think that's just a great example of like, and yeah, not every job interviewer, not every leader is going to respond in that way. Some leaders do care about, okay, what was the result? What was like the financial result to that? But if you're a doer,

and that's the action that you take. The people that matter, that you're supposed to create with are gonna notice that. And you're working on some pretty cool things now because of that. And you know, that was funny because part of your interview process was, you your universal harmonics in some ways. If we're about the same, thinking about the same interview, but.

I want to talk a little bit about universal harmonics because again, just you being a multifaceted creative or I think just being a creative in general, people are multifaceted. Like your ideas kind of come in different shapes and sizes and expressions. And you have experienced an experiential market or experiential event creation. And what is that first of all, so people can know. And

Rebecca Espinoza (56:24.078)
What did you create that is like, it's something that you did here in LA and it's something really unique and special. And personally, I still have yet to go to anything else like it. And it's still my favorite event here in LA and anyone that's attended will say the same thing. But let's talk about Universal Harmonics. And I think also let's talk about the fact that, you know, a city like LA can actually feel very lonely.

It is so populated, overpopulated, and it can feel very lonely at the same time. But what you are creating is an opportunity for intentional and fun community, and it brings in music and creativity as well. So can you share a bit about that journey?

Mike Kelly (57:12.184)
Yeah, I would love to and thank you for those compliments and you're a huge part of it and its success and why it feels safe and loving. So thank you.

Rebecca Espinoza (57:25.678)
Thank you.

Mike Kelly (57:29.784)
I guess to answer the first question. So coming out of the music world, I started getting into ticketed experiences, like attractions. The first one was more of like the selfie variety where you have this large space, you buy a ticket, you come, there's a storyline, there's beautiful immersive backdrops. I would say for its time.

Rebecca Espinoza (57:48.098)
Mmm.

Mike Kelly (57:56.524)
This was quite a few years ago. It was before these kind of pop-ups were prevalent. And it was fun. was, you know, people make great content. I would say creatively, it wasn't this insanely deep experience, but people loved it. Yeah, and it was fun and it was honest about what it was. And it performed well enough where...

Rebecca Espinoza (58:01.166)
Mm-hmm.

Rebecca Espinoza (58:16.63)
It was great for influencers. Yeah.

Mike Kelly (58:24.834)
We did that in New York, that was Dream Machine. And then we concepted a more deeply immersive and artistic experience in LA from everything that we learned from this kind of smaller scale run. So we came to LA to launch elsewhere at the Madcap Motel, which is this more like immersive theatrical story.

Rebecca Espinoza (58:26.776)
Hmm.

Rebecca Espinoza (58:47.694)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Kelly (58:51.916)
where people bought tickets, but they were entering into like a 1960s motel room. And as they go through this portal, all of these kind of whimsical happenings unfold. And that was really fun, family friendly, of vibe-y, trippy with the production value that was impressive for what we had. Crazy costumes, there was like 50 actors with this space. So that was something we were proud of. And unfortunately with

Rebecca Espinoza (59:08.364)
Yeah.

Mike Kelly (59:20.084)
a bit of a COVID casualty. So yeah, that was a lot of challenges there. But anyone in the event space, when you talk to them about that project during that time, they're just like, this, can't believe you were doing this during this timeframe. Everyone has their own COVID story, especially in live events. so then I started working for

Rebecca Espinoza (59:22.733)
Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (59:40.673)
yeah. for sure.

Mike Kelly (59:48.504)
a creative agency that did these types of experiences for brand. And it was just so sad to see these huge budgets, like, you know, well into the millions of dollars to put out something so kind of insignificant. And like, they wanted to connect with people authentically, like that was part of our job.

The ideas were there, but just the execution and the kind of lack of intentionality, it was just like a kind of a missed opportunity. Why do I these huge buttons? Like, should be able to do something pretty good with this. And, you know, basically like nothing was really moving the needle to the point where I thought was like really meaningful. But.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:00:28.014)
Mm-hmm.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:00:33.027)
Yeah.

Mike Kelly (01:00:46.826)
Essentially, universal harmonics came from all those learnings, like what I learned from the music world, what I learned from producing these experiential events, and then like where there was like a disconnect. So when I moved to LA, I found I was meeting all these really interesting people, you know, that were on kind of the mindful spectrum. didn't like going out.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:01:01.697)
Okay.

Mike Kelly (01:01:16.6)
Like, I came from New York, you meet people at bars and clubs. And I was like, where do we hang out? Like most people have huge homes in LA. So Universal Harmonics was kind of born from the need for a nightlife alternative for mindful people. And...

Rebecca Espinoza (01:01:17.614)
Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:01:26.946)
Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:01:38.798)
First of all, just looks like a great tagline.

Because it speaks exactly like you said, it communicates exactly what needs to be said and it just like grabs your like the right people, mindful people, alternative nightlife. I'm like, yes, where can I go to that?

Mike Kelly (01:01:58.072)
Yeah, yeah, and it took a little while to get there because there's different depth of the experience. But I think it's important that we're very direct about our communication. Sometimes these events that I go to, they're ethereal. And there's some promises maybe that I'm not completely seeing happening in action.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:02:17.154)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Kelly (01:02:26.872)
And most of them are very well intended, but part of my style is like leaning into my strengths and what I could do. And for me, it's not just about creating an experience, it's more about creating an environment or curating an environment for experiences to happen within. So I'm not like walking around telling everyone what to do. It's setting the stage for

Rebecca Espinoza (01:02:48.109)
Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:02:52.974)
Mm-mm.

Mike Kelly (01:02:56.3)
why we're here, how we're different, maybe a few rules. And then within this container, stepping people through three different sequences that all happened together. Like no one's walking in like 30 minutes late. So with a little bit of a group introduction of what the evening's about, which, know, we say nice things, but we're off the direct and might make some jokes and.

We tried not to take ourselves too seriously. And then we make sure that there's like a safe container and we introduce those who would offer emotional support and guidance if needed throughout the evening. And through these three stages, we start from a meditative, a group meditation or a breath work. And then we'll introduce maybe some jazz or live music.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:03:27.49)
Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:03:40.558)
Hmm.

Mike Kelly (01:03:52.95)
And then next thing you know, in the same room, there's like, it just evolves into a full blown nightclub.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:04:00.18)
Yeah, a full blown dance party. It's amazing.

Mike Kelly (01:04:03.544)
And then we end with a sound bath to degrade, but also like take this group, kind of more ecstatic energy and like handle it inward. Cause you know, with my experiences with plant medicines, it's beautiful to experience it with larger groups of people, but sometimes there needs to be like a guide or a shaman to make sure that things are happening maybe in a...

Rebecca Espinoza (01:04:07.981)
Hmm.

Mike Kelly (01:04:33.56)
in a planned way with much needed support. So it's a way of just creating a safe space to navigate all these experiences together and make sure someone has your back along the way and has already thought about the next thing you might need, whether it's a blanket or a cup of tea.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:04:35.32)
Mm-hmm.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:04:53.614)
Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:04:57.262)
The tea. Always having to boil that hot water.

Mike Kelly (01:05:01.9)
Yeah, then brought the Megan for always a beautiful meal and just making sure people are fed. So yeah, it's really just about like anticipating the needs of people and then giving them something that's unexpected, but preparing them for that thing.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:05:05.714)
Yeah.

Mike Kelly (01:05:22.274)
Yeah, with a group of about 40 people, a lot of special things could happen. yeah, it's been an amazing experiment. with basically very small budget, we're able to do something that's executed on a high level.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:05:36.812)
I know. That's true magic, honestly, with like what we're able to produce with, yeah, what we have. And there's always people just returning, like, you know, we have newcomers, but there's always people coming, same people coming back because again, and there are people always asking, when is it gonna be the next Universal Harmonics? You know, when the next one is gonna be? And I'm always like, gotta talk to Mike about that, but he's a busy man, so.

It's just, it's something that has been created. And again, going back to like,

I think you hit it on the mark really well because I think Universal Harmonics hit that sweet spot of like, not everyone is looking for this yet, but just enough of the right amount of people are looking for this experience. And that's just such a sweet spot because it's not this like huge mainstream, like blown up thing.

Mike Kelly (01:06:27.96)
Mm-hmm.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:06:37.378)
And maybe it does feel a little bit like speakeasy vibe, underground, like secret kind of thing. It's like all word of mouth. We're not like out there posting huge marketing campaigns about this. It's like, someone told me about this event, our friend of a friend. And it's quite special. It's just the right amount of people are desiring this kind of experience. And there, I think there's gonna be even more people desiring it, but you know, and.

course you experience the event very differently because you are producing it. And I think also when I've worked at the event as like a spaceholder, it's like, we can drop in, but we can't drop in fully. And how, how is that experience from like a creator and a creative side of like, I'm in this and I can recognize how, can you recognize how great it is when you're in it? Or is it usually it's just like when you step back and you like get time to process and

hear the feedback and all of that.

Mike Kelly (01:07:37.568)
Yeah, it's something I've learned, I think, in the music days, especially towards the end of the touring days where you're not taking it for granted as much. You might know it's like your last year or two playing X, Y, and Z Festival and, you know, you're becoming a little bit more aware of the whole thing. And I think that's just part of getting older too. It's like you're zooming out of yourself a little bit more and appreciating the

Rebecca Espinoza (01:08:01.581)
Yeah.

Mike Kelly (01:08:07.224)
because maybe you remember these times that were similar that happened and they kind of came and went. So yeah, mean, usually the drive home, I mean, during the experience, I'm always reminding others to witness and appreciate that, especially in the context of the first time people come, usually after

the first phase, was like breath worker meditation, or like an hour in, people might come up to me and be like, that was amazing. Like this event was incredible. you will completely forget about this moment in a few hours because the moment kind of picks up into this whole other thing. And you like realize that we were just meditating here a few hours ago.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:08:43.363)
Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:08:47.832)
Mm-hmm.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:08:59.406)
Yeah

Mike Kelly (01:09:04.726)
and like crying and holding each other and now we're like ripping it up on the dance floor and like maybe the mood's darker and more exploratory and like not maybe as feminine. It's like this whole thing happened. I'm always just like, you're still in the experience. Just be mindful of that, but like enjoy it. Like it's not over.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:09:09.214)
Yeah

Rebecca Espinoza (01:09:27.584)
Absolutely not. And yeah, I think it brings a new take to mindfulness too, because yeah, mindful being sitting and meditating, sure, is one form of mindfulness, but then it sets the stage for the energy when you get on the dance floor, how more open you feel, how you're interacting with everyone throughout the night, how comfortable you feel probably doing that without having drank alcohol, you know, which is what usually people do.

clubs and bars. So it's, I feel like it's just creating this, it's mind, it's mindful fun. Like, and that's, I don't, you don't see that too often with like the, I guess the, the nightlife arena here in LA. And I'm always excited of what Universal Harmonics is going to be. And you know, yeah, it's

a labor of love from you, from everyone that's, yeah, Megan in the kitchen and DK and team and everyone that's partaking and doing their part. It's I want to emphasize, like this is a community event. Everyone doing this is like doing it because we want to and we want to bring this bring everyone together. It's not because there's this like insanely huge return of like monetary things. It's like, no.

the experience that it brings for us and for everyone that's there. That's why we do it.

Mike Kelly (01:10:59.49)
Yeah, and because of that, it's just so essential to have the right people working on the project for the right reasons. And we've just been fortunate to have so many unique inputs and contributions from all these different kind of mentions to make it possible and make it feel as close to effortless as possible.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:11:17.346)
Mm-hmm.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:11:23.842)
Yeah, exactly.

Mike Kelly (01:11:26.8)
I mean, I always tell you this, but for listeners, whenever someone's like, Mike, when's the next one? There's two things I do. It's one check in on the venue availability and you check in with your availability. Those are like the pillars. Would you like to open up about what you do there and how you deal with the 40 people?

Rebecca Espinoza (01:11:39.288)
Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:11:43.694)
haha

Rebecca Espinoza (01:11:52.75)
Yeah, so I thank you for being mad at. I mean, I guess for quite a few of the events now, most of them have been one of the spaceholders. So, you know, I have my background in NLP, trauma-informed neuro-linguistic programming and life coaching. So I have been brought on to the Universal Harmonics team to hold space for anyone that just, you know, needs.

a listening ear, a supportive shoulder, or just like an energetic space to just be present with them throughout the journey, just someone to converse with. You like to call us, you know, like the vibe, the vibe setters or the vibe checkers of the space. And yeah, it's usually me and two other spaceholders that are kind of checking in on the space, checking in on people and kind of also, yeah, like seeing how they're responding to the night.

and communicating with you and the feedback. And you know, have asked me a few times, like, you know, throughout the night, it's just like, oh, do you feel like now is a good time to transition to the sound bath? How is the, how's the energy? I'm just like, some people, looks like a lot of people still want to dance and they still want to do that. And sometimes, yeah, you notice it's like the energy has come down and people are ready to transition. So it's cool connecting with you about that and being able to be aware of the space and knowing how to respond to that as well.

So it's been a really special experience for me. I love doing it. mean, I haven't been able to do it this last time just because of the personal journeys I've been going through. But I did still help organize getting the spaceholders there because I'm like, I still need to be a part of this in any way that I can. And in some ways, I needed space held for me. it was, yeah, still my favorite event to be able to collaborate with. And I can't wait to

to keep doing more of it in whatever ways and maybe the collaboration will look different as the times change, but it's my favorite thing to be a part of here, so.

Mike Kelly (01:13:59.65)
an honor. And what was the experience? What you expected? Just kind of I wouldn't say you just attended because you're always doing more than that. But when your intention was to not really support others and go there for yourself, like what was that what you expected because you were going through a lot of changes.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:14:00.802)
Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:14:22.156)
Yeah, it was nice to just kind of, it was hard though to kind of survive. I noticed myself still checking in with like Christina and I come like, so how's everyone doing? Like, how are you noticing like the vibe? And you know, I considered myself still like the organizer of the Spaceholders. So I wanted to like check in with them anyways. And it was a great event anyways. There was nothing to worry about mostly.

But I also did bring someone new to the event. It was their first time to the event. So that was another, I think in some level I was still playing Space Soldier Vi where I was just like helping them get acclimated to this environment that they've never been to anything like that before. So there was a surrender, but I think when you're used to being in a role, you're never fully surrendering.

to it. Like imagine if one day you were like, I don't know, someone was like, we're gonna plan it, we're gonna do it. I think naturally maybe you still be like, let me, let me check in on some stuff. Like it's not, it's hard to kind of fully surrender when you're innately used to being in a specific role.

Mike Kelly (01:15:42.008)
that. Well, I'm glad you at least got to let go a little bit.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:15:46.702)
I did, now I still got to enjoy myself and I'm excited for the next one. So I don't wanna keep you for too long. I wanted to do a quick rapid fire if you're down. All right, favorite city.

Mike Kelly (01:15:58.978)
Yeah.

Mike Kelly (01:16:07.468)
Not so rapid, is it? I'd say Los Angeles for now.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:16:09.528)
HA!

Rebecca Espinoza (01:16:13.386)
Wow, okay, just so know, Mike is from New York.

Mike Kelly (01:16:17.64)
I mean, yeah, if I didn't love LA, I think that would be open to exploring other cities.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:16:24.11)
All right, I'll take it. mean, I love to hear it. Favorite natural location.

Mike Kelly (01:16:29.932)
What's the location? Big Sur.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:16:31.201)
natural or nature.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:16:36.846)
I'm dying to go. Megan gave me her spreadsheet planner, that whole thing. it's, it's on my list. It seems so like from like a mythological storybook, it just doesn't seem real.

Mike Kelly (01:16:52.14)
Yeah, yeah, it's incredible. And then the Kamano Koto Trail in Japan.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:17:00.108)
Yeah, you got to experience the nature of Japan, which by the way, some of those nature sounds are in your mind well music, right? Okay, what's a song that sparks nostalgia for you?

Mike Kelly (01:17:08.032)
Yeah?

Mike Kelly (01:17:17.346)
Nostalgia. I would say anything Dave Matthews been.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:17:21.472)
Alright.

Mike Kelly (01:17:22.264)
We could talk about data.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:17:25.144)
Yes, this is of course a safe space.

Why specifically does it bring nostalgia?

Mike Kelly (01:17:33.176)
I would say like it was, it wasn't the only band, but I think a lot of teenagers have that like one band that for them was like, they're like a real music fan of, like the historian, the whole discography, every word, fan clubs. And yeah, like I was in it from, you know, maybe fifth grade to high school or so.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:17:47.682)
Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:18:03.156)
my gosh, I love it.

Mike Kelly (01:18:04.856)
And I listen to it now, or I so much actually when it comes on. And it just like, I feel like I'm 14 again.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:18:13.496)
Learning a lot about Mike right now.

Mike Kelly (01:18:16.15)
Yeah, TMZ, man. Let it rip.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:18:18.51)
Okay, what's a current self-care practice of yours?

Mike Kelly (01:18:24.472)
Meditation is a good one for me.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:18:29.346)
Hmm. Awesome.

Mike Kelly (01:18:31.768)
about 15, 20 minutes, twice a day.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:18:35.534)
Twice a day, amazing. Do you do that morning and evening or like middle of day?

Mike Kelly (01:18:40.128)
I'm not disciplined about the time, and oftentimes it's once a day.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:18:44.878)
like just when I need it and when I have time.

Mike Kelly (01:18:48.088)
I could say I think the best thing to do or the timing I found most impactful is around the morning time and then maybe in the later.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:19:00.214)
Okay, yeah, late afternoon could be a good reset for that final push. Okay, is there a book recommendation or even like an interview recommendation that you've seen to someone who is a creative or entrepreneur?

Mike Kelly (01:19:16.898)
Hmm. I think I might've spoken to you about this. We talked about the Rick Rubin book, the art of gathering. I found a beautiful book.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:19:23.17)
Mm-hmm.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:19:27.032)
I bought that one. You did. I'm looking for it on my shelf right now. think you, yep, I have it right there. I haven't started it yet, but you did recommend it to me.

Mike Kelly (01:19:36.888)
I noticed you said for creativity or entrepreneurship, it's a little bit more like human than that. So I think it covers both. It really just talks about how to make a gathering of people meaningful. And I think that's important with entrepreneurship and create.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:20:01.088)
Awesome. That's a good one. I gotta get to it. All right. Favorite bird. Mike's a avid bird enthusiast.

Mike Kelly (01:20:07.052)
You're a... ...suck one.

Mike Kelly (01:20:15.864)
Yeah, I mean, I would say owl, great horned owl potentially. There's the bird of prey category, which has its own kind of like cool energy to it. And then as far as the beauty side of things, know, twirling your head around 360 degrees isn't beautiful enough. The cedar wax wing I think is an understatement.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:20:19.726)
Oof.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:20:39.628)
You mentioned that one. That one's really cool. I remember I looked it up. That's a cool one.

Mike Kelly (01:20:44.152)
They live in California.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:20:45.774)
Yeah. All right. And that's it. Thank you so much, Mike, for just popping in, dropping in and sharing, just sharing yourself with us. I think this is going to be a really resonant episode for a lot of people. And I'm grateful to have had you here. I'm grateful to have you in my life as a, you're like literally a soul brother. And yeah, thank you. Thank you for being you and for sharing, sharing your creativity with the world.

Mike Kelly (01:21:15.446)
Thank you. That means a lot. I've learned a lot from you.

you know, not only from like practice and modality wise, but just your presence is always inspiring. And, and yeah, I've learned a lot from just you as a whole being.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:21:34.606)
Oh, thank you, Mike. Before we sign off, where can people, well, do you want people to find you? Where can people find you? Are you working on any projects? You you have your music. Share, share what you want to share.

Mike Kelly (01:21:49.44)
Yeah, for those interested in the meditation stuff, I do have a record label for my meditation music. So that's MindWell Records. I'll just send you the link to it.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:22:03.758)
We'll have that in the show notes. All right. Okay, thank you, Mike. It was great having you and thank you everyone for being here and we'll see you next week.

Mike Kelly (01:22:12.701)
and then we have the Universal Harmonics Instagram.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:22:16.748)
Yes, please follow that. I'm going to link that for sure. So definitely if any they do share when we're going to have an event on that page. So definitely if you're in LA, if you're not in LA and you want to experience it, come on out.

Mike Kelly (01:22:33.58)
Yeah, it's cryptic, but just we'll get you in. We know people.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:22:36.174)
Yeah

No people. All right. Thank you, everyone. We'll see you next week.