58. Breaking Free from Unhealthy Societal Expectations and Being More in Your Honest Expression.

In this episode, Rebecca and Shay delve into the profound impact of societal expectations on personal identity. They explore how early education, family influences, beauty standards, and gender roles shape our self-perception. Shay & Rebecca share their personal journeys with coming more into their true expressions and provide supportive tips on how to shed what isn't really you.

Key Moments

• Societal expectations are ingrained from a young age.
• Education systems often stifle creativity and individuality.
• Family influences can shape our views on materialism and success.
• Beauty standards are ever-changing and can impact self-esteem.
• Gender roles create confusion for both men and women today.
• Social media amplifies societal pressures and expectations.
• It's important to embrace all aspects of oneself, not just a curated version.
• Challenging societal norms can lead to personal growth and fulfillment. 
• Suppressing parts of ourselves can lead to emotional well-being challenges.
• The positive side of societal expectations.
• Community support is essential when making personal transformations.

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Chapters

• 2:47 The Impact of Early Education on Identity
• 5:18 Family Influence and Materialism
• 7:42 Beauty Standards and Body Image
• 11:41 Gender Roles and Modern Confusion
• 17:31 Social Media's Role in Identity
• 22:54 The Impact of Social Media on Identity
• 25:09 Mental Health and Self-Suppression
• 31:00 Navigating Societal Standards
• 35:11 Tools for Self-Expression
• 43:03 Dealing with Judgment and Community Support

Transcript

Rebecca Espinoza (00:01.944)
Hi everyone, welcome back to another episode of VIVA. We have another topic that's been very prevalent with us and I think could potentially be very relevant for everyone else listening. And we're gonna get into the conversation around just societal expectations and just expectations in general that have been created and imprinted in us as probably children and how that's influenced us

as adults. Once again. Tía, ¿qué pasó?

Rebecca Espinoza (00:42.274)
Before we do, we are going to get into our usual check-in. So, she como esta tu corazon.

Shay (00:53.723)
Just there. I'd say that'd be the best way to explain it today. It's just being just there. Yeah, I have like no specific reasoning behind that, to be honest. I just feel like today is one of those days that it's just, you're just existing. So that's how I feel today.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:12.994)
mean, that sounds pretty neutral, which is a good place to be.

Shay (01:17.657)
Yeah, yeah. How about you? Como esta tu corazón?

Rebecca Espinoza (01:23.118)
Feeling very full, very nourished, freshly showered, so that always feels good. But yeah, I'm feeling, I feel like I had a very full week of grieving, honestly, and it was like coming in waves. And then last night, it just passed a bit and I was, yeah, in an energy that just made my heart feel really full and open, which I'm really grateful for to have moments like that.

Yeah, that's where I'm at. Super simple check-in.

Shay (01:57.275)
Yeah, short and sweet today. So you can dive right into the episode. I feel like this topic has been alive just because personally, just witnessing people in like my friend groups in the world on social media.

Rebecca Espinoza (01:59.758)
Yeah.

Shay (02:13.741)
in everything with the election because it's in two days and just how everyone believes that you gotta be in a box. But the more conversations I have with people, it's like none of it feels right. Like I hate that I have to choose a box and that's really what inspired this topic.

And so I kind of just wanted to start first and foremost, like how did society's expectations shape the way you viewed yourself early on? And did you find yourself limiting parts of your personality, interests, or ambitions because of it?

Rebecca Espinoza (02:47.502)
feel like in many ways, yes, of course. The society that we live in and the institutions that we're a part of are absolutely shaping us at a very, very young age, whether we realize it or not. For example, the school system, that is probably one of the very first real indoctrinations we receive that is shaping and forming our minds as children. And I have a lot to say about traditional school systems, the public school system, and the educational system just in general in that way.

I feel like at a very young age, I definitely learned about rewards. If you act a certain acceptable way, you get rewarded for that, right? And I think at a very young age as well, I stifled my natural creativity because I thought I had to be a certain way to be successful, which was like a very academic. And so I followed that path. And I think that's the path that you're kind of expected to be prepared for.

You you follow, you're in the school system, you're in school from like eight to three, really preparing you for that nine to five lifestyle. And you're just working and working and working to attain the next ring on the ladder. And yeah, I think, I think I subscribed to that very early on where I was like, okay, I'm going to get to the top. And I'm like, I don't even know what the top is. Like, but I'm going to get there and more money, more material gains, which

Honestly, know, money and security in that way is still important to me in very specific ways, but I think I dimmed my light for curiosity and creativity at a certain age that I had to relearn again as I got older, which I can't but wonder how different my life would be if I didn't do that. I wanted to be a writer at a very young age. I wanted to be a teacher at a very young age, but I certain

societal stereotypes about those roles get in the way of me actually pursuing that and then kind of coming back full circle now as I've gotten older to be like no these are the things that I do want to do regardless of what society says or expects. Yeah I think that's a big one and I think just around being a woman that was a big one but I think that's that's another we can get into that a little bit later but

Rebecca Espinoza (05:08.748)
Yeah, what about you? know it's been very alive for you. What have you noticed? You've been putting yourself in a box and because of what society has expected.

Shay (05:18.203)
I actually wouldn't even say it was this, maybe it was like society's influence on my family, but I would say my family influenced me a lot more in terms of boxes.

Rebecca Espinoza (05:24.259)
Yeah.

Shay (05:28.921)
where it was very much like I witnessed my mom with a lot of material possessions and material possessions represented status and power. And so I, for very, very long time, thought my material possessions represented my status and power and what people perceived me in the external world. So I very, very often chased a more materialistic lifestyle until I realized like that wasn't actually fulfilling and it was actually going against a lot of my goals financially because you spend so much money on things that just don't matter.

Rebecca Espinoza (05:36.333)
Right.

Rebecca Espinoza (05:58.231)
Yeah.

Shay (05:59.458)
So I'd say that was one big thing when I was thinking about that. And then also similarly, I wouldn't necessarily say it was school. It was again, like my mother's influence on.

being the best and being like number one. like she put, not she put me, I wanted to, but she did encourage every activity that I did. like I was in band for a very long time and in band you have first chair, second chair, third chair in terms of where you sit, in terms of like how good you are at that instrument and where you get to sit and if you get solos and things like that. So I was very, very competitive in that way. And I almost always sat in one of the first three chairs and I wanted to be first chair by my senior.

Rebecca Espinoza (06:25.582)
Hmm... Mm-hmm...

Shay (06:42.093)
year before I left high school. So the achiever in me is both a blessing and a curse because in many ways it gets me to the places I want to be in life. But it also made me feel like if I wasn't number one, then I think it didn't matter. Like nothing mattered. Exactly. So I'd say I chased a lot of goals and achievements based off of status and power as well. That obviously was not healthy and it was actually not healthy in my relationships because then it put

Rebecca Espinoza (06:47.917)
Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (06:57.08)
like your value went down.

Shay (07:12.069)
put me in this mindset of like, I'm better than someone else or I had to be better than someone else. And subconsciously, I think like that energy definitely played out more in my romantic relationships and friendships, but it was definitely present there. So I would say those were two really big ones that stood out to me. And then I would also say if I think just like back in my formative years in like middle school and high school, I've always been a more petite person.

Rebecca Espinoza (07:15.085)
Mm.

Shay (07:42.885)
And I feel like beauty standards in society definitely infiltrated my head a lot because I've always been more petite, not very tall, not as curvy. didn't like, even when I hit puberty, I did not sprout the same way other way women did. And just like making that factor like, then you're like less desirable because you don't look like what society's beauty standards would.

Rebecca Espinoza (07:45.635)
Mmm, yes. god.

Shay (08:09.389)
say is desirable and I had to definitely work through a lot of that and I do think you know that that infiltrates our mind and our actions and how we show up and allow ourselves to be perceived in our day-to-day lives.

Rebecca Espinoza (08:23.246)
Thank

How fucked up is that, you know? The fucking beauty standard is just like... And it changes a lot. Like, remember the beauty standard was just like super... Like, I think when we were young, it was the super, super skinny, tall, blonde girl that still somehow had like abs, but like the perfect amount of like toning in her stomach and...

then it switched to like the Kim Kardashian like super voluptuous like not real butt, not real hips boobs but that was this beauty standard like I think for Gen Z kind of more now but I I relate to that too like especially I think being Latina I also I developed kind of late and I was also very very thin when I was young and

Shay (08:56.602)
Yeah.

Not real but not real anything but yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (09:17.834)
in middle school and high school, like I didn't really have the boobs, I didn't have the butt and being Latina, it's like that's everyone has hips, everyone has a butt, everyone has like the hourglass figure in some ways and I didn't have that and I was very confused about my body where I felt like I was less than not enough and I know we can, I know you and I can relate on that and it takes like, yeah, the beauty standard constantly changes so it's also fucking ridiculous to be like

Shay (09:26.437)
That's what everyone.

Rebecca Espinoza (09:48.608)
Subscribing or feeling like you have to accept yourself based on a beauty standard that who is even creating this like who is Deciding that these are acceptable beauty standards, you know, so yeah, I think that's a big one I think you know what that's one a lot of people relate to Especially women of course, but I think also men can relate to that one

Shay (10:09.451)
yeah, 100 % because men are also expected to be like tall with chiseled cheekbones and like abs and biceps and...

Rebecca Espinoza (10:17.902)
basically re-sand from a quarter of the earth's analysis.

Shay (10:23.201)
Yeah, exactly.

Rebecca Espinoza (10:25.792)
is perpetuating that kind of for sure.

Shay (10:29.211)
100 % and then it infiltrates females mine because then we're like well then he's not attractive and then it infiltrates men mine like she doesn't look like a Barbie doll so and It's like that's not real life because that's not real human beings. So

Rebecca Espinoza (10:33.486)
1000 %

Rebecca Espinoza (10:38.671)
Mm-hmm. It's so fucked

Rebecca Espinoza (10:45.826)
And like, why would you also want like a carbon copy of everything that's out there? You know, like everyone needing to be this, it's like, it's just like, gives me cringe. It's just like, that just feels like another level of control that like, but it's just, I know it's been happening for a really long time, but the control that's being put on people's bodies based off within society. And again, like we don't even know where this is fucking coming from.

Shay (11:01.157)
Mm-hmm.

Rebecca Espinoza (11:13.206)
Is this in some ways an invisible standard that is being placed on us? Like, I don't know. It makes me cringe. But I mean, so those are a few, actually I think common ways people are in being pigeonholed in these standards and potentially even being held back to defend society's norms. Do you feel like there's any other ones that you can think of that are coming to mind?

Shay (11:19.289)
Yeah.

Shay (11:41.059)
I think some that I'm witnessing in the world right now is how confusing it is to be in maybe more traditional gender roles. feel like through modern day feminism women are very confused on how to show up. It's just like, it's like that deep...

I think primal nature that a lot of females have if you want to be a mom of just like wanting to be a caretaker, wanting to be at home with your kids, not wanting to work. But if you say nowadays as a female like, I don't want to work, then you're kind of like look down upon because it's like, but modern day feminism fought really hard for you to have rights and for you to be able to be working. So like your career should also be really important.

Rebecca Espinoza (12:09.496)
Mm-hmm.

Rebecca Espinoza (12:26.35)
Mm-hmm.

Shay (12:27.757)
Then also I think like women being confused on being like, well, career is more important to me than motherhood because for some people that's true or the whole notion of like wanting to have both and feeling like you have to choose. And so I feel like all of those are societal pressures that come from historic glee stuff that happens happened in the past and how we evolved to modern day society. I think it's very confusing. I also think it's very confusing for men in this world today because they

Rebecca Espinoza (12:34.766)
Yeah.

Shay (12:57.683)
historically grew up in a society where like they were the breadwinners, they were the caretakers, they were the providers, they weren't allowed to have emotions like all of these things. Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (13:00.526)
provider.

I would say they're really providing more than like the caretaker.

Shay (13:08.739)
Yeah, provider for sure. And some of them want to be more caretakers nowadays, or maybe they don't want to be the breadwinner, or maybe they want to have both also. And it's just because modern day society has evolved. We've evolved as a species. And I think men also feel a lot of pressure there because

Rebecca Espinoza (13:15.287)
Yeah!

Rebecca Espinoza (13:28.472)
probably shame too for wanting, just like should women feel shame and like shame for wanting the opposite of what was enforced in them.

Shay (13:33.336)
Yeah.

taught exactly. I think like those are some things that I just witness because there's a lot of confusion. I feel like I talk to like my guy friends or the men in my life or even like girlfriends and everyone's just confused on how to be. It makes me really sad because I'm like, just just be who you want to be. But it's not that simple because I mean,

Rebecca Espinoza (13:49.326)
Everyone is fucking immune.

Hmm.

Shay (13:59.991)
it does affect how you're gonna show up in your day-to-day life. It's going to affect how you perceive yourself. It's gonna affect the action steps you take. And even in researching, you know, this topic, it seemed like one of those topics that's like, it's just like fun to talk about. It's like, no, it's actually affecting people's mental health and wellbeing. And that's exactly, and it's not okay to do that at all.

Rebecca Espinoza (14:16.376)
Mm-hmm, and their value.

Rebecca Espinoza (14:23.042)
Yeah, you know, I think these gender roles were placed on us at a very young age, of course, naturally, and even just thinking about the toys that we were given and that were being marketed to very specific girls and boys. And I was talking to the guy that I'm dating right now and I was telling him how it was actually my dad that got me into baking.

and he was the one that would get me into the kitchen to bake and he was like, whoa, that's like a, he literally was like, that's like an uncommon dad role or a thing to do, I feel like. And like your mom, he's like, your mom was a day. was like, no, it was my dad. My dad and I would love to bake chocolate cakes together, like box chocolate cakes. And I think he did it because he was also responding to how much I liked the Easy Bake Oven. So I got an Easy Bake Oven when I was a kid and obviously all the girls out there.

early 2000s 90s girls know the fucking Easy Bake Oven. We loved it. And yeah, first of all, whatever they were giving us in those fucking Easy Bake Ovens with the powder thing, that's for sure was probably cancerous. Like those things are not like whatever we were making was not good for us. But then the guy that I'm seeing also brought up, he's like, damn, Easy Bake Oven. He's like, whoa.

Shay (15:18.124)
yeah, I was literally just talking about this last night at the baby shower. Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (15:39.596)
What kind of like gender roles was that probably perpetuating already at a really young age? It's like you give the girl the easy bake oven to learn how to bake and just like this is what they learn how to do. And then you probably grow up and like wanting to do that. And I was like thinking about, yeah, like what were the toys, you know, that Barbies were given to us and like, look at how Barbie looked like how Ken looked like it was just ridiculous. And the boys were given what? Like race cars.

Nerf guns, yeah, Hot Wheels, and it was always considered weird probably if one wanted to play with the other. And you was just like, you would stick in your lane for these toys that were being sold and marketed. Like there was always a boys aisle in Toys R Us and there was always a girls aisle in Toys R Us. And again, it's just like...

This is so subtle, but the toys that are being given to us already at a young age is already starting to perpetuate the gender roles that we're to play in bigger society, which is really fucking wild to think of. Like imagine a toy store where it's just like there's no aisle specifically separating the toys for boys and girls. It's just like everything's mixed together and letting the kids run free and seeing like what draws their attention. Like that would be such a great experiment and research, I think, to conduct and see like what levels of curiosity, creativity, and happiness are.

Shay (16:59.122)
Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (17:02.88)
sparked from these kids picking whatever they want based not not realizing that this toy is for a girl this toy is for a boy so that's my that's my spiel it's like gender roles being inflicted on us at a very young age with our toys but another i think another piece around

Rebecca Espinoza (17:31.566)
Okay, yeah, I think another piece around feeling like we have to fit into these boxes is social media, right? And feeling like we have to meet certain standards. And how do you think social media plays a role in both supporting and stifling our multidimensional expression as humans and feeling like we just have to be one thing because of what we're showing up as social media and what's expected on us?

Shay (17:56.796)
I feel like the last couple of years I've definitely moved through pieces of this actually because I remember talking to one of my mentors about it where I like, feel like yes, who I show up online is very authentic, but I also feel like I hold back certain things because I am like a wellness coach or I do hormone infertility coaching. And so I'm very much on the health conscious side of things.

And I'm also a human being who's multidimensional who likes to like go out with friends and sometimes like I have a party side and and so it's like if I want to share that like I'm out and about doing something and maybe I did get drunk or I was like not living that sober lifestyle that I preach online it felt like a

Rebecca Espinoza (18:38.414)
Mm-hmm.

Shay (18:43.291)
conflicting identity where it's just like, well, I'm perceiving one thing so it doesn't make me fake and doesn't make me bad and doesn't make me less this because I'm being human and enjoying this part of my life. And it's not what I preach is the exact opposite of it. And so I'd have that or I would feel like I couldn't fully use my voice because I represent multiple brands in terms of like my on offline life. You know, like I also teach a fitness class and at my

Rebecca Espinoza (18:57.518)
Mm-hmm.

Rebecca Espinoza (19:12.141)
Mm-hmm.

Shay (19:13.277)
Studio they have their own ethos. They have their own brand They have their own representation and I am an extension of that even though my social media is for me and my brand and my business and so I had like No, I can't I can't fully be myself then because then it's gonna like hurt this other part of my life, too and it was very much like I had a box myself in because it was gonna cost me something basically when really if I'm just Honest with myself like no, but this is also a part of who my who I am. It's not all of who I am

and it's just kind of a piece of me and learn to integrate it and not make it wrong or bad then it's like I get to live this whole integrated life versus like these fragmented pieces which was very exhausting. I felt like I had to limit how I showed up in my online and offline life many times. So that's like a real-time experience that I had to work through and work on and I would also say

Rebecca Espinoza (19:59.745)
Yeah.

Shay (20:10.541)
A lot of people are comfortable hiding behind a screen, so I feel like how they show up online sometimes would never behave that way in person. And so I also think in one way could be social media's kind of crutch to the way I think some people show up and how they perceive themselves. And I always found that interesting when I kind of reflected on that question.

Rebecca Espinoza (20:30.498)
Mm-hmm.

Rebecca Espinoza (20:38.722)
Yeah, the social media piece is, I think, very multi-layered. Again, I was having this conversation with the guy I'm seeing, but I think a lot of the times it is a microcosm of a macrocosm, right? And it's just very hyper-amplified in different ways. But yeah, when it comes to the identity piece, I think, yeah, when people... I feel like especially if you're some sort of public...

figure in some ways and like I'm not even saying I'm a public figure but I think you know we have this podcast we talk about certain things I think people expect us to continue to talk about certain things and then you're just like I think we're also assuming these expectations I am at least like my audience or community community is gonna expect me to be the certain way because because I'm come I'm talking about these ways so then I self-impose

Shay (21:33.583)
100%. I mean, I do that to other people. Yeah. It's like we're just humans.

Rebecca Espinoza (21:36.364)
Yeah, and like I self-impose it. Yeah, it's just one version of myself and that's why I think I need to take regular breaks from social media. Like right now I'm so like, I think I've, I don't know, I'm curious to know also have you noticed like after your detoxes, now do feel like you have more?

Regulation over how much time you spend on social media how much you scroll like I find myself not even scrolling them like when it comes to like coaches and this is another thing when I see all these people other people's identities online noticing like it can potentially influence me to how I'm showing up online so when it's like these Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, so I'm like because I feel like it's not coming from me but I guess people could also say that about like reading all the books and like I think that's a little bit different but

Shay (22:05.103)
Good.

Shay (22:14.716)
Even if it's a positive expression. Yeah.

Shay (22:21.23)
Exactly.

Rebecca Espinoza (22:26.926)
When I noticed now because I've done a few digital detoxes, social media detoxes that now when I go on my social media, I'm way more mindful about like scrolling and also about just like reading through people's stuff too much. I literally stop myself. I'm like, no, I don't need this right now. I don't need this. And literally now most of the things that I watch are just like animal videos that my friends and I send to each other. And just like that's mostly what my feed is now is just like animals and houses.

Shay (22:39.224)
Mm-hmm.

Shay (22:51.887)
I'm here.

Rebecca Espinoza (22:54.378)
And I'm like, this is great. This is all I really want. Like, I don't need someone else's identity continually infiltrating my own identity. But yeah, I think there's definitely a pressure and I do worry. I do worry very much when we've talked about this before about the children, the younger generation growing up with this and how much that's truly going to impact their sense of self and feeling like

Feeling like they just have to be... It already has! I would definitely want to see some research. yeah, for sure.

Shay (23:25.677)
I mean, it already has. anyone has watched Social Dilemma, like Social Dilemma did the whole study on how it has affected both millennials and Gen Z because we're like the tech people, especially, yeah, but like especially Gen Z, they've never not known a life without a phone.

Rebecca Espinoza (23:37.218)
We were the ones really born into it.

Rebecca Espinoza (23:42.19)
I think it's really funny to see these videos on Instagram where it's comparing millennials and gen Zs about how it was with the internet. There's some, I did it myself, where you're just making stupid, embarrassing videos on the Mac with those filters and you're dancing and singing with your friends and your siblings and you're just being so fucking embarrassing and you'll post them online sometimes on

Shay (24:02.406)
yeah, I did it all the time with my brother.

Shay (24:08.959)
You

Rebecca Espinoza (24:12.084)
MySpace. Yeah. Yeah. And now that was us. Like we didn't get a show. We embarrassed ourselves. Now everything is so curated and it shows the comparison between that was us and millennials and now the Gen Z. It's like their makeup is done all the time. They're doing these choreography TikTok dances and they just look like supposed to look cool and kind of like effortless. it's just, it's all luck though. It's all like a facade.

Shay (24:12.827)
it's like the original vine. i don't know.

Rebecca Espinoza (24:39.406)
And again, what is that going to do to their mental health? What is it already doing to their mental health? And I'm really curious to see the research that's probably going to come out on all of this. And I'm also a little scared because social media 100 % impacts the sense of self. And sometimes it pop. I think there's two, there's obvious two sides to it. Yeah, of course. Okay, but now.

Shay (24:58.053)
There's two sides to every coin always. Yeah. Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (25:09.582)
I mean, this kind of plays a role into it as well. So bridging back into wellbeing and mental health. What happens do you think to a person's wellbeing when we're constantly suppressing parts of ourselves to fit in, to be accepted, to conform? And do you think there's a correlation to this in mental health? Which probably yes, absolutely.

Shay (25:30.693)
There absolutely is. I think all the research that is out there is the impact of, I mean, suppressing anything is like, it's basically, we, when you use the analogy of mold, because you like could have mold that's like embedded inside of our walls, right? And you don't see it, but it's making you sick.

Rebecca Espinoza (25:46.338)
Mm-hmm.

Shay (25:55.957)
And until you kind of like figure out that there's mold in your house or whatever and it's making you sick, it's kind of the same thing. If you're suppressing your voice, if you're suppressing your expression, if you're suppressing anything you're experiencing and it's living inside of you, it's like mold toxicity building up in your body. So like no one else can see it, but you know that it's like it's there. It's you're suppressing it, you're hiding it. And it creates, I think, cognitive dissonance, which is why people experience that.

Rebecca Espinoza (26:13.122)
Mm-hmm.

Rebecca Espinoza (26:19.47)
happening.

Shay (26:26.281)
because then you have an external persona that you have to personify that people know you as and if you don't keep that up then like it could create judgment, could create shame, could ostracize you and all human beings want is to like be loved and accepted exactly as who they are but that's exhausting to live every single day with like a mask that you've created or a personality that you've created or an image that you've created whatever it is and

And if it's not authentically you, then you're literally letting toxins build in your body. And there is research and data that proves this. Like if you just look at the electromagnetic field around a person who's like suppressing their emotions versus someone who's like fully living authentically themselves, it's a different aura. And it's not, it's like literal science and energy and you look different.

Rebecca Espinoza (27:12.832)
Hmm.

Shay (27:25.673)
I even if I look back at photos of me just how I look, like, I don't even look like the same person or even like two years ago and I'm actively doing this.

Rebecca Espinoza (27:27.768)
Same. my God.

There was like no light in my eyes.

Shay (27:36.033)
No, it was like my face was stiff. I was inflamed like it's you can see the difference I mean even if you wanted to try and experiment with yourself like I remember doing this I think it was three weeks and this was just like food and obviously like food impacts but like how that energetically helped me feel emotionally and mentally and all this stuff like the whites of your eyes changed like if you take a picture of yourself every single day for a week and just try like letting one thing out and

And you'll see physically how different you look from that day one to day seven, just in seven days by like, maybe letting yourself express just one thing a little bit more and leaning into that. And it literally shapes and changes your energetic and physical body.

Rebecca Espinoza (28:22.514)
Mm-hmm. I agree. I remember looking at photos when I was in college and I was very very suppressed and yeah, like I just look I just I can look at that image and see and feel while you're forcing that smile so hard right now or like My eyes just looked They didn't look like they had real full light in them and it's just

Shay (28:47.705)
Yeah, there's no like life in you.

Rebecca Espinoza (28:49.29)
Yeah, and I was wearing a lot of makeup and even then I was like so synthetic like it was trying to cover up, you know how I'm feeling and I look at photos where I'm not wearing makeup now and I just look so much happier and so much more radiant. It's just like the makeup wasn't it wasn't fucking it was trying to mask it all. wasn't really doing a good job. Not to me when I look back and have that self-awareness now. And, know, I've been there like I've masked and I've suppressed for years because I very much learned to silence my voice for.

to be accepted, like I learned young that love is conditional and I've had to like rewrite that out of, you know, I've had to rewrite that as I've gotten older. But because I wasn't fully being in the expression of the self that I wanted to be in, I became depressed. Like I was doing a job I didn't want to do. I was working this corporate ladder that I didn't want to work. And I was in a relationship that really reached the end of its life line and we weren't really doing much to.

extend it or to really truly work on it and save it in some ways devoting to it. And I was completely unaware of who I was. And because of that, because I was so disconnected, I became depressed. So speaking from personal experience, I know what it's like to try to force yourself in these expectations and standards, even if it goes against your soul's deepest truth and whispers and your soul's own song.

So, been there and I've definitely experienced it and 0 out of 10 would not recommend.

Shay (30:22.442)
Like, yeah, hard no.

Rebecca Espinoza (30:24.824)
We're not doing that again. And you know, sometimes it still comes up in some ways where it's just like, but I think you can catch if you've been there already and you've gotten yourself out of it, we're human. We're going to have those moments again, where we're just like, am I like reverting back to this like self that I'm silencing myself and following a path because I feel like I have to not because I actually want to. You're going to notice you become so much more attuned to the experience of reverting back to it.

to that and you can get yourself out of it I think much more quickly is what I think.

But we talked a lot about, you know, how societal standards have not been supportive. What do you think? When do you think societal standards in some ways actually are supportive?

that's a tough one, but I think there's something there.

Shay (31:19.791)
Hmm.

Shay (31:27.301)
I do think There's always two sides to every coin, but I do think like the whole I would say especially nowadays like the whole wellness trends and era of like You know being more in tune with your body being more mindful having breath work practices eating healthy like the age of the wellness era I do think

when you are aware of how to integrate it into your life. Obviously, it's like a multi-layered thing. But I do think that's positive. And I think it's super positive to have mindfulness practices. I think it's super positive to be harping on community. I think it's super positive to be like, go out and be in nature. I think it's very positive to encourage people to eat healthy, whole, unprocessed foods and knowing their gut health or knowing their metabolic health or all of those things.

Rebecca Espinoza (31:56.686)
Yeah.

Shay (32:23.837)
because health is to me a foundation of like our entire life and our well-being and optimizing your health and being able to live a long full life if that's something that you desire which I think most humans do. So I would say the wellness era I believe has shaped a lot of positive changes and obviously just like everything it's your relationship to it. So I would say that's something that I've noticed that has been very positive.

in my life and I believe very positive in other people around me as well.

Rebecca Espinoza (32:57.39)
Yeah, I agree. Some of these trends that people are, you know, that are very much alive can shape us in a very supportive way. you know, I think just in general, societal standards in some ways create a level of accountability and also a level of goals and ambition, right? Like if there weren't any expectations of any kind.

would we actually ever get anything done? Would the innovations that have been created ever been done? Would the evolution of our world ever really happened? But again, especially with technology, again, double-edged, there's like, you know, but yeah. And I think there's like, I think there's also just like, to what extent, like having certain societal expectations, having the expectations from society being put on us, I think has,

Shay (33:39.333)
It's always the relationship to it, I think. It's yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (33:53.018)
gone too far. But I think there still needs to be a healthy level there. Because like, imagine being a teacher, right? I think about like a classroom. I think to be a really great teacher, there is like a level, fine balance between being like, setting the expectations, setting the standards, being more in that stern kind of expression, but also being more of like, that balance of having

easy natural rapport with your students, being able to have that level of like friendliness in some ways. But if you go to too much to one side, everything feels, if you're too much like a friend and too much just like kind of laxadazle with them, nothing's going to get done. But that's you need a little bit of that standard and that expectation in the classroom as a teacher to be able to create that very

Shay (34:37.231)
Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (34:44.449)
just conducive and creative environment. So I think in some ways it is important to have standards, but again, are they actually healthy standards? What kind of standards do we have? think that's what matters because I do think it creates some level of like accountability and ambition in the world that we need if we want to really evolve. Okay. Well, speaking of, know, we kind of shared a little bit about

Just a little bit, but what are some tools do you think or practices that can help people start expressing themselves more fully when they feel stuck in certain boxes?

Shay (35:24.475)
actually just did an exercise on this challenge that I'm doing and the exercise was to write down all the things that you perceive yourself as and then all the things that you would like to be perceived as.

Rebecca Espinoza (35:38.126)
Mmm.

Shay (35:45.223)
once you kind of like physically write that list out you see a visual representation of how you see yourself versus how you would like to be and like then asking those questions of like why am I not?

you know, trying this identity on or going for this thing if it's something that your heart desires. And that's going to reveal a lot just in itself because you're going be like, I want to be all of these things too, but you're holding yourself back. Why? And just like opening that conversation. I think that's step number one. Like until you have awareness, you cannot change things for yourself. And even though you might feel the disconnect and the cognitive dissonance that's happening in your life, you may not actually have the

awareness of like what specifically is happening so I think when we can make it tangible and we're of such visual creatures and you can see literally how you're holding yourself back and have that conversation and awareness then you can start to choose differently, show up differently, and whatever feels right for you and at the end of the day I think

Rebecca Espinoza (36:43.18)
Mm-hmm.

Shay (36:47.971)
Yes, just like Becca said, standards are great, but at the end of the day, you get to set the standard. And so it's like, what's the standard you want to set for yourself? How do you want to get there? What kind of support do you need? And it's like bringing your heart and that human compassion into that experience. So that's something I think everybody could do that's very easy.

Rebecca Espinoza (36:52.11)
Mm-hmm.

Rebecca Espinoza (37:04.588)
I love that. That's a good one. I really like that. I feel like I need to do that. I feel like I need to refresh and like reconnect with that a little bit. Yeah. And I mean, also like first and foremost, if you feel like you can't do this by yourself, you said, get the support that you need. Maybe you get a therapist to kind of hold your accountability or you do this with a friend and like something I need more space to do this too. It's just like have a day. think, you know, I think

Deciding who you want to be starts a lot with like your heart's desires, right? And then like with your heart literally listening to like your desires in that moment and then taking action even if it's small subtle action to do those things, right? So like for me sometimes it's like I'll have a day where I'm just like What do I want to do? Like especially after I was getting out of my depression and I got out of my relationship That's something that I focus on I asked what do I want to do just today?

What do I want to eat for breakfast? Maybe it's different from everything else that I've been eating because I was, that's what I just ate all the time and I was expected to eat all the time. What do I want to do with my day? Like letting myself literally live through simply ask myself, what do I want to do just today? And from there, letting curiosity peak and see where it takes you, I think is so fun. And it's really, it's a really unique way to get intimate with yourself because you're asking, what do I want to do?

today and maybe that simply start off journaling asking yourself that like what do I want to do today just today and then asking yourself little by little every day and kind of expanding it well what do I want to do in a few months what do I do with what do I want to do with my job what like being honest with yourself and simply asking yourself that question because I feel like some people don't even ask themselves that question they could just get stuck in the cycle of an expected path and they're just walking it without even like

Shay (38:46.863)
you

Rebecca Espinoza (39:00.938)
without even reflecting and reanalyzing, what do you actually want to do? Because maybe it's changed over the last two years, but you've never even actually sat down and taken the time to ask yourself. So I think that's a really simple thing that you can do that could actually bring a lot of awareness. And again, like I said, accountability, maybe you just share it with one friend. This is what I want to do today, or this is what I want to do in like a few months. And having that accountability or a therapist, I think goes a long way because when you're

making a big change, you're making change with who you are as a person. It's not like a small feat sometimes, so having the support system is.

Shay (39:43.265)
Necessary, Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (39:43.466)
necessary, yeah. Because I think we had that with each other when we started on the Madala journey. We had a whole community when we were changing our lives and that made a huge difference.

Shay (39:51.972)
Yeah.

Rebecca Espinoza (40:03.042)
Are there any other ones you've seen?

Shay (40:07.171)
I feel like we kind of hit all of them just naturally.

Rebecca Espinoza (40:11.756)
Mm-hmm.

Rebecca Espinoza (40:16.318)
with judgment. Judgment piece.

Shay (40:21.071)
Yeah, I think that'd be it. That'd be the last one.

I think it ties in perfect. Okay, so I feel like what you just said is really perfect in terms of having a support system because I also believe that when you are making these changes, a lot of things will start to fall away from your life because the identity that you've been portraying or living as may no longer fit.

Rebecca Espinoza (40:42.563)
Mm-hmm.

Shay (40:52.005)
the molds of the people around you or whatnot. I know definitely for me, I lost a lot of friends in the process because how I was now showing up and be no longer.

Rebecca Espinoza (40:54.488)
Mm-hmm.

Shay (41:06.681)
was what they wanted me to be and it no longer benefited them or it was just kind of like a contrast of where they were maybe holding themselves back. So I think that is something that naturally is experienced and happened. And so I do believe having community who's on like a similar path and understands what you're going through is super, super important. But I'm just curious to know like, how have you dealt with those judgments or perceived notions when stepping into being more of you and all that that entails?

Thanks.

Rebecca Espinoza (41:39.534)
That's a big question. I feel like initially, honestly, I didn't have, maybe I did have a little bit of judgment, but I kind of always saw it, and this came with practice, and it first comes with like accepting yourself, right? And kind of understanding why.

why you're on the path that you're on now. And for me, I think a big anchor was I was so fucking unhappy when I was not on the path that I didn't want to be on. And I was forced upon through my force myself and, you know, against society or expectations. But I was so unhappy. I had a tangible experience from being depressed than to suddenly being happy and knowing like

God, I haven't really felt true happiness in this way before because I felt so liberated. I felt so free. And I think all I knew is just like, I don't want to go back to being that disconnected and that depressed. So I think I had a visceral anchor in my body knowing how it felt to be somewhere I didn't want to be in a certain season of my life. And that...

overpowered without a doubt, regressing because of people's opinions on me. And I think initially when I started coming on a path that was a bit more unconventional, like the ways I was thinking, the perceptions that I was holding, I was the one that was worried about people really judging me and not so much people weren't actually judging me. Like it was just, again, self-

inflicted, I was just worried that people's perceptions were going to change. And I think the only time that I really felt like I was being judged maybe was when I stopped drinking with my friends that my past friends, they were so uncomfortable about it. But and they were kind of in some ways giving me they were giving me shit about it and saying like, I'm not fun anymore. Like, I'm too like I'm too spiritual now because like, I'm too good for them because I don't drink anymore. And

Rebecca Espinoza (43:48.792)
But what I heard in those words were not judgment towards me. It was just insecurities of their own. Like for me, I was like, why does my choice of life suddenly impact or affect you?

Shay (44:03.341)
I lost you. can't hear you anymore.

Rebecca Espinoza (44:12.61)
Here we go.

Rebecca Espinoza (44:33.422)
Hello? Test, test, test.

Shay (44:39.449)
Can you hear me?

Shay (44:43.291)
can't hear you anymore. It just like dropped, I don't know why.

Rebecca Espinoza (44:55.928)
Hello, test, test.

Shay (44:59.279)
Mm-hmm.

Shay (45:21.593)
Okay, that's weird.

Shay (45:26.553)
now.

Rebecca Espinoza (45:27.896)
Hello, hello, hello. Yeah.

Shay (45:29.243)
Can you hear me?

Shay (45:33.273)
You can hear me, but I still can't hear you, so I don't know what's going on.

Shay (45:41.603)
not the headphones.

Rebecca Espinoza (46:09.454)
Okay everyone, I think we definitely shared quite a bit to ponder and reflect on and as always, we're really grateful that you tuned in, tapped in and just joined us for this conversation. And if anything came up for you and you feel like there are certain societal expectations or standards that you're trying to break out of, or that you have broken out of and that you want to share with us, please do. We're always open to having these conversations so you can.

send us a text now, that's a thing, on Spotify or you can shoot us a DM on Instagram. So again, thank you so much for being here. We really appreciate you being part of the community and we'll see you next week.